Conflict to Collaboration: The Art of Resolution

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Quick Take Podcast, the show where you get targeted advice and coaching for executives by executives. I'm Susie Tomenchok.

[00:00:12] And I'm James Capps. Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to address the complex topic of issues that are challenging executives like you today.

[00:00:23] Hey, welcome to Quick Take. I'm one of your hosts, Susie, along with my co-host, James. How are you, James?

[00:00:28] I am living the dream. Thank you very much.

[00:00:30] You are. Wow. I'm just going to leave it at that. We don't even want to know what the dream is.

[00:00:35] You know, it's a vague statement I like to use.

[00:00:38] Yes. Yes, yes. So I have a story to tell you.

[00:00:42] Tell me a story.

[00:00:43] Yeah. I have a client. His name is Ryan. And he works with a colleague, as most people do within work environment. It's amazing.

[00:00:54] It's hard to get business with those hermits. You know, they just don't reach out for coaching. I don't know why. I think there's a market for that somewhere.

[00:01:01] If we could just get rid of all the colleagues, we would have no problems.

[00:01:05] Exactly right.

[00:01:05] And that's actually a perfect segue to what we're going to talk about today, actually. So Ryan has a colleague that he doesn't get along with at all. I mean, it's so bad that when Ryan has a meeting with this person, he gets all in his head. It's about the guy. He, so he goes into the meeting ready to kind of go to battle. He's almost waiting for that other person.

[00:01:29] Sure.

[00:01:29] There you go. Challenge my assertion.

[00:01:32] Mm-hmm.

[00:01:33] Put something, you know, yeah. Throw a rock in this discussion. Let's bounce it out. I just recognize he goes, you know, it's not me. It's him. And what I realized was he was creating so much friction just by going into the conversation.

[00:01:49] And I feel like there's some responsibility on the, Ryan's at the level that he should be able to become more objective in those moments to not let that get the best of him.

[00:02:01] Right.

[00:02:01] But we face a lot of conflict every day and we talk and it sounds so sexy. Let's, let's be collaborative. Let's make sure that we can have resolution. But what does that look like in real life?

[00:02:14] Yeah, that's a, that's a great topic. And, you know, it's funny looking at this from two different angles and I guess, you know, I've, I've been kind of a, a student of this space more at a corporate level.

[00:02:26] And I think the reality is that conflict is so complex that it is talked about at an individual level, at a corporate level, at a global level.

[00:02:35] And so there are some processes and approaches that I've, I've read about and put into place that, you know, my first, my first suggestion is something that's used by the United Nations, right?

[00:02:45] This is something that conflict is so important and conflict resolution and coming to terms with certain situations. This is a global thing.

[00:02:54] So Ryan, who is dealing with the guy is struggling with this situation no different than, you know, the U S is dealing with Iran.

[00:03:03] So these things are real. And I think that as a people, as a humans, we, we have done a pretty recent, but recently good job of evaluating how to address this.

[00:03:14] And I think, you know, what works at the corporate level or works at the global level can, can help Ryan as well.

[00:03:20] Yeah. So what, what is that tip that you got?

[00:03:23] Well, I think the first one it's think of it this way.

[00:03:26] When, when a company or an organization who is basically the entire construct of its, of its existence is around conflict resolution.

[00:03:36] They're going to spend time, money, and resources to put something into place to address this, right?

[00:03:42] It's, you know, it's a framework and you know, the, the UN created this revolutionary conflict mediation process that they talk about.

[00:03:51] And they believe they have an 84% success rate.

[00:03:55] And what they do is they create what they call this integrated resolution framework that brings real time emotions into the conversation uses technology.

[00:04:05] And the mediators use a seven step process, which I'm not going to go into to transform these hostile parties into collaborators.

[00:04:13] And they do tension tracking.

[00:04:15] They do all these things.

[00:04:16] And so, you know, it's very complex where obviously you're dealing with famine, you're dealing with border wars, you're dealing with ethnic issues, ethnic histories and religious conflicts.

[00:04:26] But the truth is, is they create a framework.

[00:04:28] That's really what I want to bring it down to is to still that down to an area that the first piece of recommendation I would have for you is put together a framework in a way that you can manage the conflict.

[00:04:38] And whether it's Ryan and his, his hermit camera buddy who, who he doesn't get along with, or, you know, a large cable company, having a complex resolution framework really makes a difference.

[00:04:50] So where does somebody find the framework or do they make it up?

[00:04:54] Obviously it's got to be adjusted for your own, for your own organization.

[00:04:57] But I think there are several complex resolution frameworks out there.

[00:05:02] I know that you and I have talked about a couple of what, where do you, what do you recommend in a situation like this?

[00:05:07] What frameworks are you familiar with?

[00:05:08] Well, I would say I taking it a framework I would use with an individual is for Ryan to really think about and understand when he's triggered and when he's not objective.

[00:05:21] And when there is, when it's personal, when you realize, okay, I am not objective right now, what's going on.

[00:05:28] Right.

[00:05:29] So that he can go into the conversation with that understanding for himself.

[00:05:34] So I call it high stakes and I tell people about how high stakes is individual for all of us, for Ryan in this situation, it's his peer.

[00:05:42] And so instead of thinking about reframing it for yourself and going into the conversation and really focus on the goal of the conversation and not necessarily that person that's getting you triggered.

[00:05:57] So how can you go in and then say in that moment, hey, I want to make sure that we both get really focused on what we want to accomplish here.

[00:06:04] This is the goal that we set out to do.

[00:06:07] And I think that's an easy way of at least maneuvering yourself.

[00:06:11] No, I think that's a great kernel or core piece of a good framework, right?

[00:06:17] One of the frameworks I'm familiar with is called the Panama process, which really details the work you do to get to the problem and avoid all of the other things that are often engaging and creating that conflict.

[00:06:32] You know, the personality issues, the biases, the history.

[00:06:36] So, yeah, I think your advice is perfect.

[00:06:38] Take it down to the issue level and take it away from the personal level.

[00:06:45] Yeah, because really what a framework is doing is shifting the focus.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:49] And Ryan's focus is getting even or winning the argument with this person.

[00:06:54] And so a framework can help you zoom out.

[00:06:56] We get really zoomed in on our personal vendetta.

[00:07:02] And we all know that that can totally get in our way.

[00:07:05] So I think that's OK.

[00:07:06] So that's a great tip for having a framework, have a solution and be able to identify when you're in that conflict.

[00:07:14] What's the second tip?

[00:07:15] Second tip is really, you know, there's a company that I've been working with called Resolve Co.

[00:07:20] So it's a resolve co.

[00:07:22] It's short for resolving conflicts.

[00:07:26] And what they do is they have a software where they create this thing called the conflict canvas.

[00:07:31] And what it does is it creates an, again, it's a framework, but it creates a location and a place to have the difficult conversations.

[00:07:39] So the second recommendation I like to give is build these dialogue systems so you can have these crucial conversations in a constructive manner.

[00:07:48] Microsoft has formalized their crucial conversations program that actually does.

[00:07:54] They train their employees and they ensure that they have these crucial conversations in a very constructive way.

[00:08:00] Resolve Co's goals, that's hard to say.

[00:08:03] The goals of Resolve Co are to create, use software to have those dialogues or at least manage them.

[00:08:10] But at the end of the day, it's about putting something together to ensure that you have a constructive conversation within the framework that you've created.

[00:08:19] OK, so I'm going to take it from like a coaching perspective.

[00:08:23] I was going to give some specific things.

[00:08:25] When you're going into a conversation, influence is really important.

[00:08:30] And one of the things is that if you don't get everybody's voice in the room from the very beginning, you create this defensiveness that people have that they want to keep it to themselves.

[00:08:40] And so one thing to do is if you feel like you're having a meeting that you continue to have the same conversation over and stay ja vu.

[00:08:49] Like we've just had the same meeting.

[00:08:52] We're not making any progress.

[00:08:54] Take a different approach.

[00:08:54] And maybe it is, hey, time out.

[00:08:57] You know, I know we've been trying to move through this project and get these ideas on the table.

[00:09:02] Instead of going through the list in our Excel spreadsheet that we've identified as the next steps, let's just shift to the whiteboard.

[00:09:09] And let's all agree on what are the best possible outcomes in this meeting today.

[00:09:14] And it's shifting the whole room.

[00:09:17] But it's also if you can get everybody's voice in the room, they feel like they're a part of the solution.

[00:09:23] Exactly right.

[00:09:24] It's really about making sure that conversation happens and that conversation is constructive.

[00:09:29] I like the pivot you described, which is a way from task oriented to more constructive oriented about having the dialogue we need to have.

[00:09:38] So often, you know, I work with a lot of engineers and I joke that every meeting that we have at one hour on meeting, you know, we'll spend about 20 seconds discussing what the problem is and then the rest of the time solving it.

[00:09:49] And because we jump to the conclusions all the time, we never address the actual the way that we're discussing things.

[00:09:56] And it's critical that we put that framework together.

[00:09:59] And it's funny how you get stuck in.

[00:10:01] This is how we've done it.

[00:10:02] This is the way we do it.

[00:10:03] And if you can make that shift and help other people change that mindset, you can really shift the whole room.

[00:10:10] You can have everybody come at it from a different perspective.

[00:10:13] So great one.

[00:10:14] All right.

[00:10:15] What's your last tip?

[00:10:15] The third one that I think you just basically you nailed it on the head, which is you've got to create this learning loop.

[00:10:23] You've got to create a situation where you are doing this over and over and over and improving over and over and over.

[00:10:28] I laugh about how, you know, you never want to work for a company that's really good at layoffs.

[00:10:33] You never want to be in a relationship with somebody who's really good at weddings.

[00:10:38] I mean, there are certain things that you can hobble through one and finish it and not be great about it, but you hopefully don't do it very often.

[00:10:47] These type of conflict situations are going to occur all the time.

[00:10:51] There's going to be conflict at both a personal and a department and a corporate level.

[00:10:55] And so you've got to create these learning loops through which you can train your employees on your framework, give them opportunities to practice these crucial conversations.

[00:11:05] And come back to it on a regular basis to ensure that you're improving.

[00:11:10] I'm going to maybe I'm going to take a different like.

[00:11:12] Yeah.

[00:11:13] When you said learning loop, I thought about leading with curiosity and being really curious and getting outside of your head.

[00:11:20] And it was so funny.

[00:11:21] I listened to if you watched Ted Lasso.

[00:11:23] I don't know if I can make this connection, but I saw the snippet.

[00:11:27] He was playing darts against the guy that owns the other team.

[00:11:30] And the guy on the other team assumed that Ted Lasso was not good at darts.

[00:11:35] And Ted Lasso acted like he wasn't good at darts.

[00:11:39] And Ted Lasso basically starts talking about how everybody underestimated him and nobody ever asked the right questions.

[00:11:45] He said, you know, a great question I would have asked me is, Ted, are you do you practice darts?

[00:11:51] And I would have said, yes, I have done this for years with my dad.

[00:11:55] And suddenly Ted is is masterfully throwing the darts and totally got this other guy, you know, was fantastic.

[00:12:05] Yeah.

[00:12:05] Made him look like an idiot and a jerk.

[00:12:07] That's a great scene.

[00:12:08] And he was.

[00:12:08] And so it's that idea of getting outside of don't try to be the winner.

[00:12:14] Try to really that learning loop, as you said, drive that curiosity.

[00:12:19] Ask questions.

[00:12:20] Don't start with this is where we need to go and lead.

[00:12:24] Take it from a how what do you think is the best possible outcome?

[00:12:29] How do we move to there?

[00:12:30] What are the things that we need to do as a team?

[00:12:32] No, I think that's that totally applies and very directly articulates on how that learning loop can can be implemented.

[00:12:40] You know, get better at asking those questions, get better at looking at the details, get better at being vulnerable.

[00:12:48] And I think those things are all part of how we improve and do this on a regular do do this well over and over and not just, you know, hope for the best when you're having a conflict.

[00:13:00] You're exactly right.

[00:13:01] Like that learning loop and learning that your point is that this is going to happen.

[00:13:06] We have to be ready for it.

[00:13:08] So take the time as a leader to help your team have an approach to be more collaborative and less confrontational.

[00:13:19] Yeah, I think if you're a leader and you have a conflict with another department or within your group and you think it's over and it's done, you're wrong.

[00:13:27] Right.

[00:13:27] It will continue to be a thing and it may fester.

[00:13:32] It may wax or wane.

[00:13:33] But the reality is, is how you address it now and will reflect to later on down the line as that relationship continues to exist.

[00:13:41] Sure of that person leaving or that company disappearing.

[00:13:45] You know, those conflicts will continue to be part of the ecosystem and you need to know that you're doing it right.

[00:13:49] Yeah, for sure.

[00:13:50] You're never going to make any progress.

[00:13:52] All right.

[00:13:52] So tell us the three tips.

[00:13:54] Take it seriously.

[00:13:55] Understand that conflict is real.

[00:13:57] Create resolution frameworks.

[00:13:59] Create a framework on how you will deal with conflict, whether it's at an interpersonal level or at a corporate level.

[00:14:04] Put some structure around it to make sure you're doing it well.

[00:14:07] The second one, be sure that you're thinking about how you communicate.

[00:14:10] Create a system where you can have these crucial conversations.

[00:14:14] Train your employees on how to deal with this.

[00:14:16] Allow them to opportunity to practice having those difficult conversations.

[00:14:20] It's great for new managers to learn how to have tough conversations with employees.

[00:14:24] It's great for senior level people to realize that they have to have a dialogue with departments or regulators or competitors in a very different way than they did with their employees.

[00:14:36] Build those dialogue systems so you know how to have those conversations.

[00:14:39] And then third, create a process where this is you are continually growing.

[00:14:43] You're learning a loop on where those, the things that you can improve on it.

[00:14:48] As you pointed out so well, at the coaching level, you know, get the skills that are required to be good at this.

[00:14:55] Practice those and continually improve.

[00:14:57] I love it.

[00:14:58] So good.

[00:14:59] Thanks, James.

[00:15:03] When you go into a cocktail party or to a bar and you just want to get to know people, what's your funnest thing that you do?

[00:15:12] What do I do to break the ice with people when I go to a bar or cocktail party?

[00:15:16] Okay, that's much better.

[00:15:17] Is that kind of what you're...

[00:15:19] Okay.

[00:15:20] The art of asking the direct question.

[00:15:22] I like to dress in a very distinct style.

[00:15:25] I think, I wouldn't say it's outlandish, but it does have a little bit of flair.

[00:15:28] And I do like to find people who are also slightly dressed that way.

[00:15:32] And I'll compliment them on their poodle shoes or their glasses made from bottle caps or whatever.

[00:15:38] But I try to find a kindred spirit in that space and connect with them.

[00:15:43] I've been to those kind of events with you and I have been surprised by when you introduce yourself,

[00:15:49] you're a different person than I thought you were.

[00:15:51] So that's where I thought you were going to go.

[00:15:53] Oh, I do that.

[00:15:54] Yeah.

[00:15:55] No, another thing that I've done in the past is I have a pin on my jacket.

[00:15:59] I have a pin collection of quirky pins.

[00:16:01] And one is this very old high school picture from somebody from like the late 50s, early 60s, big hornworm glasses, teal shirt.

[00:16:08] You know, that kind of like wispy blonde, but it's already been colorized.

[00:16:12] So it's really a black and white picture.

[00:16:14] And people ask me who it is.

[00:16:16] And my challenge to myself is that I have to come up with a different story every time.

[00:16:20] Leave it to you to challenge yourself.

[00:16:22] Yeah.

[00:16:22] And the best part is like when somebody new comedicist comes to the circle and asks,

[00:16:27] and then everyone heard me say, this is Rachel Johnson, the inventor of the Xerox machine.

[00:16:32] And then the next person comes up and I say, it's Imelda Cheeseman.

[00:16:36] And she and her father were the first to, you know, play tiddlywinks underwater.

[00:16:41] Everybody's confused.

[00:16:42] I love it.

[00:16:45] Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take,

[00:16:48] where we talk about the questions that are on the minds of executives everywhere.

[00:16:52] Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

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[00:17:00] All the links you really need are in the show notes.