Harnessing Diversity in Leadership Teams

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you

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get targeted advice and coaching for executives by

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executives.

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I'm Suzy Tominczuk.

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Speaker 2: And I'm James Capps.

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Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to

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address the complex topic of issues that are challenging

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executives like you today.

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Speaker 1: Hey Quicksters, welcome to Quick Take.

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I'm Suzy, along with my fantastic co-host, james.

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How are you, james?

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Speaker 2: I'm super good this morning, feeling really good.

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Yeah, it's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, as I like to

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say.

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Speaker 1: Yes, feeling like a DaVinci.

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Speaker 2: You know, I've got that artistic bend in me today,

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so yes, yeah, this is an interesting topic.

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Speaker 1: I just know that we were.

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I was just looking at the title of what we were going to talk

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about, kind of the left brain versus the right brain and what

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the different types that find themselves in the boardroom.

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And it's funny because I'm probably more right-brained and

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you're probably more left-brained, so we can also go

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around on that.

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But like, how do you take the best of everybody in the room?

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And we've all been there where it just feels a little bit

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lopsided or it's hard to find that synergy.

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So how do you have, how do you take the advantage of the best

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of all worlds?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the key is to realize, first and

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foremost, that you've got to surround yourself with people

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that are different than you, and I think that's the number one

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mistake every board makes, every leadership team makes.

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I think the data shows that people tend to hire people that

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look like themselves, visibly, physically look like themselves.

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I think there's just a lot of subconscious and unconscious

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biases that happen there, and when you want to create an

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organization that is diverse in its thinking and not, you know,

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get and get stuck in its ways, I think bringing people around

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you and having a board that's diverse in thought is huge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know what's interesting is I work

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with leaders who say that just that I need to have diversity on

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my team, and they go through the interview process and

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they're like but this person's really good and really qualified

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, like you really have to keep your kind of bias in check and

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really go all right.

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How do we stay objective too?

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Because I agree with you, the diverse thought and I remember

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hearing a chief learning officer say one time diversity isn't

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easy, and so some days it's like I don't want to have to deal

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with diversity of thought because it takes a lot of work,

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but it's super important.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that you know one of my first pieces

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of advice, you know to kind of jump in is, you know,

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no-transcript.

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I like to remind the technology organizations that creativity

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and that artistic element is so important.

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And so you know, I always say, you know, embrace your artistic

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side.

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Now, that's hard when you're, when you're, you know, working

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in an industry that may be very specific in its technology, but

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but you know there was a period of time when a lot of the

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original software developers were musicians and artists,

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because there was that creative element of writing code.

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And I think you know my first piece of advice is to for a

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group of leaders or a board is to to embrace some sort of

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artistic, creative activity to get a different part of your

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brain working.

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I know I worked with a CEO who brought in a art teacher to do

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an art class, essentially in in the boardroom, to force everyone

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to do some sort of impressionistic drawing, and the

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eye rolls and the scoffing and the and the disdain for that

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exercise.

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You know the lunchtime discussion on it was cruel, but

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at the end it made sense.

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And then there was a realization that that you know

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we need to have some diverse, well, some, some unique ways of

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thinking and bringing in that artistic element.

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I think is always really a clever way of doing that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's so interesting and it can feel

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really uncomfortable because you almost you know you're going to

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get those you don't want to like make a silly mistake or you

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don't want to look like you're a leader that is doing something

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that isn't going to work and you but you need to.

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You need to embrace that uncomfort and know that it you

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know, be creative and be courageous.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, I think it's that, that, that courage

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to embrace the unexpected muse.

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What is the thing that's going to come in?

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And you know, obviously, as a technology leader, you know the

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the the other side of that coin tends to be something in the

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more artistic space, but that applies for to any organization,

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whether you're a nonprofit or you're running a music academy.

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You know, bringing in somebody who has a different way of

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thinking, that unexpected muse, I think is is huge.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it makes me think.

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You know, I do a lot of team sessions with different diverse

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groups and I'm doing an engineering team.

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I'm working with an engineering team in the next couple of days

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and it makes me nervous because I know they don't like to go

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outside of the box Like I'm reading into what I think they

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would feel comfortable doing and just making people look at

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things different.

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Speaker 2: So that's the only way to shift that perspective

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and mindset, to understand everybody else in the room 100%

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agree and I think you know my second piece of advice builds on

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that really well, which is, you know, your team needs to be

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diverse in general as a whole.

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And you know I'm trying to avoid using the word diverse

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because DEI and diversity is getting its time in the grinder

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right now.

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But having a group of people who are your leadership team,

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who are from different points of view and have a different way

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of thinking, is so important.

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You know, I talked about having embracing, you know, that

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different type of muse, that embracing that unique.

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That's one thing.

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Building a team that tends to have optimists and pessimists.

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You know, I've talked at a great length on many podcasts

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how I worked with a guy who was a natural pessimist and I loved

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it because he always brought the negative to the conversation.

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Now, he wasn't an under minor, but he did ensure that we were

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looking at the possibility of failure, which in my case, you

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know, is not always my strength.

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So I think building a team who's going to look at things

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from different points of view is essential to ensure a well

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thought out leadership approach.

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Speaker 1: So I have a question for you.

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I work with a senior leader who she likes to bring her team

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together, and she knows how important that is.

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But she'll sometimes go well, I don't need them all.

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I'm just going to bring these two with me and have this

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dialogue, and I almost think it's because she's more

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comfortable with those two, and so it's not a.

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I'm going to set up this team and then we're going to be

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diverse thinkers.

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You also have to watch your patterns and be cognizant of

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bringing that diversity in every day, every conversation.

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Yep, yep, I think it's important.

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Speaker 2: I love that opportunity to have that

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discussion with that leader and say why do you only bring in

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these two?

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And your answer?

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I'll tell you exactly what she's going to say.

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She's going to say well, because they understand the

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situation better and it's easier to get to the answer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: Because it is.

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It is easier to get to the answer when you know that they

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see it from your point of view.

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Of course it is Totally.

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It's like I'm.

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I have this really challenging situation and I'm going to go to

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my dog for advice.

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Well, of course, my dog is going to agree with me it's my

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dog.

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But I think that the opportunity for that leader is

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to realize that the reason it's hard to bring all five of your

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direct reports together is also the reason you bring all five of

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your direct reports together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: And so challenge her to recognize the moment that

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she's saying I'm only going to bring these two folks in, and

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that's when the red light should go on and say that's why I need

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to bring in the other three.

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Now, if she does have a leader who is just a curmudgeon maybe

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they're a recalcitrant jerk and no answer is good enough then

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maybe they just need to move that person off the team.

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But the truth is, is you, do you know?

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The important things are hard and you should ensure that you

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look at them with lots of points of view.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Yeah, I think you're exactly right.

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And it's hard too, because sometimes time is of the essence

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and you can also say I just don't have time to bring

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everybody in, I need to do this right away, and that's a, that's

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a ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.

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You are going the path of least resistance.

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Speaker 2: Stay away Right.

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And if you don't, you know, honestly, if you you don't have

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time to get all the five of your people together, that's there's

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other problems there.

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I mean you should be able to get five people on the phone in

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five minutes.

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You know your team should be, agile, should be.

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I know we're all busy, we all have lots of meetings, but if I

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need, you know, the A team to opine on this particular topic,

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I should be able to get them all on the phone and that's just.

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I think that's a good team that is working together for a

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collective goal.

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They're going to find that agility when it matters.

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Speaker 1: Awesome, yeah, all right.

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So what's your third?

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Speaker 2: My third one is really about creating an

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environment of curiosity, right?

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I think that that curiosity is the openness to different ideas

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and to say, hey, I'm willing to do this little interesting

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drawing, painting clay project in our offside because it might

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open my mind up to something else.

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Hey, I do want to hear Jerry's point of view even though we

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always disagree, I do like to see where he's coming from that

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curiosity is just a much healthier way of going into

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meetings.

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And so I think, when you think about the left brain, the right

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brain, the top brain, the bottom brain I just coined that phrase

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, I don't know what that means.

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I'm a top brain person, she's a bottom brain.

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That you know you've got to be curious as to way people are

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wired.

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You know there's a million personality tests out there.

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Whether they're good or bad or right or wrong.

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I'm always curious as to how they come and come about, and I

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love more than anything hearing about people's way of thinking,

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and that's the interesting part.

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And so if you're curious and create a foster an environment

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that curiosity is acceptable, then I think you're going to go

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a long way.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I can't help but go to techniques around

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that, like practicing silence, being careful that you don't

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just keep rambling on.

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Give yourself a, this is the problem, and then stopped.

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Or this is the thing that we want to do.

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And then another thing to your point some people don't always

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let the same person be the one that interjects.

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First, because we tend to have patterns within teams as well.

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So maybe have everybody.

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Give me your top three ideas and the three reasons why it

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won't work, write them down, and then we're going to go around

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the room Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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I think it's up to you to figure out a way to facilitate

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that.

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I think if you just go in accepting the fact that there

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could be a happy accident, that these things can happen, that

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the person who is least involved in the technology space could

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you know they could be the germination of a really good

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idea.

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That's super valuable.

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We all get caught up in our own stuff and we end up with

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blinders, and you know there's there's a million different

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biases that come.

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You know that address and talk about how we are blinded by our

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own knowledge.

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This is a place where you can really take advantage of your

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other groups of thinking.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love the idea just to kind of restate what

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you said is go in without the answer.

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Really really go in with here's what we have to solve, so that

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the team can feel like it's not already solved either.

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Speaker 2: Sure, you know.

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To be honest with you, though, I always go in with the answer

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in my mind.

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I think I know where the answer is.

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What I really love is when the team never doesn't end up there,

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and it's almost like a game to see how far away I am.

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My goal isn't to get the team there.

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I just think, hey, I want to go north.

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And then I walk out of there going guys, it's so cool, I

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thought it was north, and we all realized it's east, isn't that

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great?

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And explain to them where I was coming from.

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And then it's for me, it's not about subconsciously or

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unconsciously manipulating the meeting.

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It's like, okay, why did I like to do the little retrospective?

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Why did I think this was the answer?

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And I think that's just a really fun thought exercise and

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a way for me to foster my continued creativity.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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I love it.

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I think you gave us a great way of approaching the situation,

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so tell us what are the three that you came up with?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think, you know, embrace the unexpected

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muse, realize that there, you know, there is somebody or

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something in the room that could be unique, to help you have a

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different way of looking at things.

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And then, two foster cross-pollinated teams.

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You want to have teams that have multiple points of view on

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the regular basis.

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You need to have that kind of that crucible of ideas and

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thinking.

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And then, third, you know, lead with curiosity but not with

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control.

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You want to go in there and think, being curious as to where

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this goes, Like I suggested.

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You know, have an idea where you're going, but you know, just

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be, don't try to control the situation, Be curious about the

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situation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it have a map but also have the ability

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to zoom out and really see.

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You know which path you're going to take.

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That's a really good approach, great one.

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Thanks, james.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: James, I was wondering what has been the most

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valuable piece of advice that you've received in your career.

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Speaker 2: The most powerful.

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You know, I think the piece of advice that I use over and over,

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I think, actually comes from Sean's John Sean's where he said

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and I don't this is definitely not him, but I remember him

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saying it at the time and it stuck with me because he was a

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great guy A lot of our listeners know, john, you know he said

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you know, never let a good crisis go to waste.

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And I think that that's just a fantastic way of, a looking at

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the positive side of something and, b understanding the

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dynamics of human nature and of companies, that a crisis is

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simply just an opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick

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Take, where we talk about the questions that are on the mind

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of executives everywhere.

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Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

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You find your podcasts.

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Our links to the show are in the show notes.

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We appreciate you.