How to Make Bold Moves Without Falling Flat

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Quick Take Podcast, the show where you get targeted advice and coaching for executives by executives. I'm Susie Tomenchok.

[00:00:12] And I'm James Capps. Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to address the complex topic of issues that are challenging executives like you today.

[00:00:23] Hey, welcome to Quick Take. I'm Susie and I'm here with James. How are you, James?

[00:00:27] Hi, Susie. I am fantastic. Although it's a little warm here in the room, so I'm going to have to call the makeup at people and powder my forehead.

[00:00:35] Get them back. Get them back.

[00:00:37] Oh, they're right here. They sneak in. When you really take the audience's attention, they come in and they powder me up.

[00:00:43] I thought you were going to say, I better make this interesting or you're going to take a snooze on me.

[00:00:48] No, it's always interesting with you. You keep me on my turn.

[00:00:51] Nice, nice, nice, nice. All right. So that teased me up well to tell you.

[00:00:55] I was working with an executive this week and we were talking about his strategy for next year and he leads a call center and sales people that are connected.

[00:01:06] And he was like, he wanted to put in place this new idea of onboarding people and putting them in this work group so they can learn the skills from one another before they move on.

[00:01:16] It doesn't really matter. But he was like, but what if it doesn't work?

[00:01:19] And what if I start it and then how will it make me look if it doesn't do well?

[00:01:26] And what if it is? So like he had all this self-doubt about it.

[00:01:30] I was so fascinated by it because to him, like I was like, oh, that's a great idea.

[00:01:34] But then it was like just riddled with all of this worry on taking risks.

[00:01:40] And I thought, I wonder if this is common.

[00:01:42] Yeah, I think risk taking and an executive's ability to make decisions that have risk is really interesting because I think it's a muscle that so many leaders build up over time.

[00:01:56] And really good leaders don't know that they do it.

[00:02:00] And so it is really difficult to articulate or teach somebody how to behave during risky situations.

[00:02:08] You know, you can imagine somebody whose house is flooding for the first time, how challenging the decision making process is during that difficult time versus somebody who's been through 30 floods.

[00:02:19] Right. You know, I would suspect the challenges of your parents raising all 27 of your siblings was pretty simple of which time they got to you because there was nothing they hadn't seen.

[00:02:31] You know, that's so interesting to think about it like that, because as a as a leader, it's so easy to jump in for that various that very exact reason.

[00:02:40] Like this is what you do. This is how you do it. Do this first. Put the towels down over here. Don't waste time doing it over here.

[00:02:47] And it feels like you're so efficient in that moment. So anyway, I know it's a different topic, but I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very much the same thing to letting it go.

[00:02:56] And it reminds me of my, you know, my sister has a big job. And I remember one thing she said was it is true that it's lonely on top.

[00:03:05] It's lonely being up there because sometimes you do have to make a decision that is if you feel very isolated, like you really can't ask a lot of people.

[00:03:14] And so it's kind of up to you and you see it clearly as your decision.

[00:03:19] And so I'm sure that that adds to the complexity of being a risk taker.

[00:03:25] Oh, sure. And I think that, you know, my first piece of advice or my first recommendation is kind of stupid because it doesn't make a lot of sense.

[00:03:37] Yes. And a lot of our listeners will understand it. But if you don't get what I'm saying, you've already done it.

[00:03:43] Because it's really developing a risk assessment framework to evaluate the potential opportunities and outcomes.

[00:03:51] And good leaders have built that framework over 10 years. And that assessment is done in a lightning fast.

[00:03:59] Yeah.

[00:03:59] Right. And they think about it, the pros and the cons and the short term issues, the long term issues, the impact to budget, the impact to morale, the impact to the stock price.

[00:04:08] And while some of those take due diligence and some heavy thought, you know, certainly acquiring another company, firing a board member, those things are not quite as significant.

[00:04:19] But sometimes, you know, an executive needs to make a quick decision. And those are done within that framework that you build over time.

[00:04:25] So, you know, if you're a listener who is a more junior leader and you're confused or impressed by the ability of a leader to make decisions, understand that they have built a framework.

[00:04:40] You know, when I was in college, there was a guy who I think he's probably still in college.

[00:04:46] He certainly smoked enough weed to stay there. But he always joked about the Ben Franklin method, you know.

[00:04:52] And so we would literally be deciding what bar to go to and he would whip out the Ben Franklin method.

[00:04:57] Interesting.

[00:04:58] And the Ben Franklin method is basically whip out a piece of paper and you put the pros and the cons on both sides of a T chart and you write them all down and then he discuss it.

[00:05:07] It's, you know, it's very weird.

[00:05:09] Yeah, that's his framework.

[00:05:10] But you know what? It was still a risk assessment framework.

[00:05:14] Yeah.

[00:05:16] And every framework that anybody uses, whether it's conscious or subconscious, it's not a different than that.

[00:05:20] But they're getting all the data they could possibly get and then they're assessing it.

[00:05:25] But the Ben Franklin method is still a framework that you can take advantage of.

[00:05:33] And ultimately, as an executive, you've take that, you build something bigger and better.

[00:05:37] And so you have your own framework.

[00:05:39] Everybody has their own framework.

[00:05:41] But, you know, again, if you're a more junior leader, it's really about finding ways for you to evaluate the situation, look at pieces of the data and try to make decisions.

[00:05:52] Yeah.

[00:05:52] And I guess to make that point again, it's like just find a framework that works for you.

[00:05:58] And what you're saying over time, when you say it becomes invisible or you're just unable to do it, it's that framework plus this experience that leads you to this just ability to react in every scenario.

[00:06:13] Yeah.

[00:06:13] And I think the reality is this is a science, right?

[00:06:16] This is less.

[00:06:16] I mean, there is art to it.

[00:06:18] But I mean, you know, Amazon has a risk assessment model training course.

[00:06:23] Yep.

[00:06:24] They teach it.

[00:06:25] Microsoft has a very specific risk analysis framework that they use.

[00:06:31] And so those frameworks exist.

[00:06:33] Obviously, you know, like anything else you can learn in a class, you know, you want to customize it for yourself.

[00:06:37] But don't think that this is something that is beyond your ability to learn and is something that is not outside of your grasp to start to understand.

[00:06:48] And I think the other piece is you take a framework and you try it and then you make it your own.

[00:06:52] And don't feel intimidated by I don't have enough knowledge to know what to do with this.

[00:06:58] Just try it.

[00:07:00] Because it is more of an art and not a science.

[00:07:03] Yep.

[00:07:03] Yep.

[00:07:03] And then I think that's a perfect segue to my second piece of advice, as always, because you're such a great podcast host, is that really, you know, create a fail fast environment.

[00:07:13] Right.

[00:07:13] Right.

[00:07:14] So you are evolving, learning those, that framework.

[00:07:17] But you want to create an environment in your organization where you determine that you are not going in the right direction and you allow yourself to fail quickly and move on.

[00:07:27] You know, so often I find when I coach either individuals or companies, I really think that my job is to help them learn to fail fast so they can get out of the problem that they're in and move on to another one.

[00:07:38] And address the situation, you know, you want them to get to the solution that's going to matter and not get caught up in trying to get stuck with this problem that they're dealing with.

[00:07:49] So let's break that down a little bit because that is such a catchphrase, fail fast.

[00:07:55] And what if it's the leader's idea and the leader is like all gung ho to make it work and I see that it's not going to work.

[00:08:02] Does that mean raise my hand and say it or is it up to the leader to make that space?

[00:08:07] Like, what is that look like?

[00:08:09] What should that look like?

[00:08:10] Yeah, I think the most important thing is that you create a framework, again, a methodology so you have rapid experimentation.

[00:08:21] So, you know, you can't just get out of the chute, go, hey, this idea is bad, boss.

[00:08:26] Let's fail fast.

[00:08:27] I mean, that's too late, right?

[00:08:28] You just don't throw the sticky on it and hope it works.

[00:08:31] But what you can do is encourage people to have ideas and metrics around a problem so you can determine quickly if you're going in the right direction.

[00:08:39] And so, you know, I know that I've worked with leaders who tend to have grand ideas, who tend to bring them to the table as if they're well vetted, who have these, you know, they'll get influenced by the in-flight magazine or, you know, something they heard on the radio on the way into the office.

[00:08:54] And a good way to counter that is to put key metrics associated with that project that you can measure very quickly.

[00:09:00] You know, you're doomed when every project's first key metric is, you know, in fourth quarter or three quarters from now.

[00:09:06] So, you know, if somebody comes to the table with a problem or a solution, maybe, you know, an executive who you can't ignore, say, that's great.

[00:09:14] Let's put together three metrics that we can measure in three weeks to determine if we're really making progress.

[00:09:19] That's a fail fast culture.

[00:09:20] That's a fail fast environment.

[00:09:22] That allows you to make decisions and look at those problems in a different way.

[00:09:27] That's exactly right.

[00:09:28] And I guess I wanted you suggested this.

[00:09:32] I'm hoping this isn't your third tip, but you suggested this before around what is the worst case scenario?

[00:09:38] And maybe even taking like a few minutes while you're going through it to even anticipate what could go wrong so that if it goes, if it starts going that way, you're already kind of thinking that this wouldn't be the best solution.

[00:09:52] Well, I think that's part of your framework really is evaluating the possible outcomes, preparing yourself for those outcomes.

[00:09:58] You know, when the worst, what's the worst could happen?

[00:10:01] You know, our employees could die in the data center.

[00:10:04] Well, maybe that's, maybe that risk is a little more, maybe your risk appetite isn't appropriate.

[00:10:08] But, you know, you do think through those things, you do look at worst case scenario.

[00:10:13] You know, one of the things that I really enjoy, I'll go back to my framework briefly and I talk about this a lot.

[00:10:18] And I'll give a shout out to a former coworker of ours at Comcast, Alan Oatman, who I thought was always a great leader.

[00:10:26] He always appreciated the fact that he was the pessimistic voice in the room.

[00:10:31] And I found it was so important.

[00:10:33] So many of us technology people are always optimists.

[00:10:36] And Alan taught me that it's important not to have a negative Nancy and Alan was not a negative Nancy, but to say, hey, let me look at it from the way, from what if it fails?

[00:10:44] And it is so important that your framework looks at those failure scenarios just as much as us technology people look at the success scenarios.

[00:10:53] Yeah.

[00:10:53] And even looking at what that path may look like so you can see it before it happens.

[00:10:58] All right.

[00:10:58] So what's your last one?

[00:11:00] Well, my third one is really, you know, we'll call it the Alan Oatman suggestion, which is surround yourself with good people.

[00:11:06] And make sure that you have diversity in thought, diversity in points of view.

[00:11:10] You know, if you have a framework that makes sense and you're helping yourself or helping your organization put a fail fast, rapid prototyping methodology in place.

[00:11:19] It's so key to have people around you that are not thinking, helping you stay on the bubble, thinking about things differently, as Alan often did.

[00:11:27] You know, let's talk about what happens when this fails.

[00:11:31] What does that look like?

[00:11:32] And I think those are it's so important that you make sure that you don't have you're not surrounded by people who think exactly like you.

[00:11:38] I think another key to that is recognizing when people are like that, not to shut them down because it's so easy.

[00:11:46] So easy to do.

[00:11:48] Yeah.

[00:11:48] And I would say that's the thing that I really learned early in my career working with Alan as an early young executive.

[00:11:54] I did feel like he was always just trying to make it harder.

[00:11:58] But when I when we talked about it, he's like, no, you guys are saying that this is what happens if it goes well.

[00:12:04] Somebody has to say the other.

[00:12:05] Yeah.

[00:12:06] Right.

[00:12:06] And it wasn't a matter of him trying to stop us.

[00:12:08] It was him trying to show us the alternative.

[00:12:11] And I think that, you know, that is the benefit of a cross-functional team.

[00:12:15] That is the benefit of a diverse organization.

[00:12:18] You know, DEI gets a bad rap right now, but the diversity and thought cannot be undervalued.

[00:12:24] And I think if you're surrounded with people that think just like you, ignore all the other attributes.

[00:12:29] But if everybody thinks like you, you're not going to move the company forward.

[00:12:33] Yeah.

[00:12:34] And be a good steward of that.

[00:12:36] Make sure you're watching yourself.

[00:12:37] It's one thing to bring that to the table.

[00:12:40] Well, it's another thing to really encourage those voices to be courageous because I've been I've brought ideas and I've brought up things.

[00:12:49] And then there's silence.

[00:12:50] And that even silence makes me apprehensive again.

[00:12:54] So I'm like, oh, that was dumb.

[00:12:56] Because then I I put in the silence the judgment that I believe is in their head.

[00:13:01] It may not even have been that bad.

[00:13:03] So it's being self-regulating, I think, for leaders.

[00:13:06] We forget that to be a good observer of ourselves.

[00:13:09] Yep.

[00:13:09] Yep.

[00:13:10] You if you're going to surround yourself with a diversity of thought, you have to foster that thought.

[00:13:14] You have to encourage it.

[00:13:15] You have to create a space for people to speak.

[00:13:17] Absolutely mission critical.

[00:13:19] All right.

[00:13:19] So what are your three?

[00:13:21] You know, first build a framework.

[00:13:24] Learn a framework, research frameworks.

[00:13:27] But as a leader, you need to have a framework in which you can effectively evaluate a risk situation and make a decision.

[00:13:34] Secondly, you want to build an environment in which you can take risks and really fail quickly.

[00:13:41] Determine that that risk was worth the risk or not worth the risk.

[00:13:44] And your investments in time, money and resources can be less if you can fail fast.

[00:13:50] And third, surround yourself with people that think about things differently.

[00:13:53] That diversity of thought helps you see further down the line, helps you think about the risky situation better.

[00:14:00] And it certainly allows you to take more risks because you're looking at them more clearly.

[00:14:06] I think it's really great.

[00:14:07] It made me think as you were going to, it's okay to go, okay, why am I being apprehensive?

[00:14:11] This is a risk.

[00:14:12] Like even identifying how this feels and why you feel apprehensive.

[00:14:17] Ah, such good.

[00:14:18] So embrace risk and fail fast.

[00:14:26] Hey, James, I have a question for you.

[00:14:28] Okay.

[00:14:29] What is something about you that you spend a lot of time and energy hiding from others?

[00:14:35] Well, if I did it well, I would have to think about it for an hour here because I'm going to hide it well.

[00:14:41] Time and energy.

[00:14:43] Gee, you know, I don't spend a lot of time and energy on a lot of things.

[00:14:48] Maybe I do think I'm impatient and I do spend a lot of time practicing thoughtfulness and pause and giving time where is necessary.

[00:15:00] I think I spend a lot of time.

[00:15:01] You know, as many of the listeners know, I do yoga almost every day.

[00:15:06] But it's and that's me managing that impatience.

[00:15:10] Oh, that's a good one.

[00:15:11] Good for you.

[00:15:12] Good answer.

[00:15:13] Did you want me to say something else like the birthmark of that looks like that looks like Colin Powell on my left arm?

[00:15:19] I was expecting something deep.

[00:15:21] I didn't expect something like that.

[00:15:23] So that was good.

[00:15:23] Okay.

[00:15:26] Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take, where we talk about the questions that are on the minds of executives everywhere.

[00:15:33] Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

[00:15:35] You can find us on LinkedIn, YouTube or whatever nerdy.