Knowing When to Move on From Your Boss

Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you get targeted advice and coaching for executives by executives. I'm Suzy Tominczuk.

And I'm James Capps. Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to address the complex topic of issues that are challenging executives like you today.

Hey Quicksters, Welcome. This is Quick Take. I'm Suzy along with my co-host. I shouldn't say our friends, Our friend.

James, my friend and co-host. Co-hosting friend. Co-hosting friend that's weird. I don't know what that means. Co-hosting friend. I'm here with James. I'm here with James. There you go, James how are you? I'm fantastic. How about yourself?

Good, I'm good, and I love that we always have topics that are just happening our day to day that we bring to light, because I think that that is how we know what are on the minds of people everywhere.

Yeah, and they are. It is funny because you're right, it's. This topic is something that came up during our conversation you had with the leader, and that's how so many of these come across our desk, or emails we get, or consulting opportunities we have, or even people I'm coaching will have some of these ideas. So, yeah, tell me more about this one.

All right. So just yesterday I was talking to a client of mine we'll call her Nicole and she was really struggling with her boss. So I'll give you a quick scenario. She had worked for her boss for nine months, got reassigned to somebody else.

Oh yeah.

And now she's back to the same boss again, and the problem is this person has never given her great feedback, has basically told her directly I'm not going to put you up for promotion, I'm not going to like I'm putting all these barriers in front of Nicole, and she just was recently reassigned to her, so she feels like she's got to stay. But her boss the boss that she had in the between this person came back and said I want you to take another role with me, Sure, A lateral move. And so she's struggling with. Should she move so quick? And also should she stay with the boss that she's currently signed with? Because is this a growth opportunity for her?

Oh yeah, it's very mature thought, yeah.

Yeah. So she's really struggling with should she do this? So the question is really when should? When have you outgrown your boss? Or when is your boss not good for your own development, without making that decision because you don't like them? Like, when are they good for you and when are? When is it time to move on?

Yeah, I think that's a really interesting topic, and I think that as you get more senior, you'll find that maybe you have outgrown your boss, or even, as a more junior leader, you find that the things that that person can bring to the table are really what you need. I will caution folks as we start with this topic, though and I have coached people about this is you have to understand, too, that your boss, as you get more senior, will be less and less of your entire package. You've done episodes where you need a mentor, you need a sponsor and you need a coach, and those are different people, and remember that, as you get more senior, you may find that you don't get the mentoring you need from your boss, your direct reporting line manager, but you can get it somewhere else, and so I've had many people come to me saying, hey, I'm not getting XYZ from my supervisor. I'm like, well, let's go get it somewhere else. That's fine.

You need to learn to have an entire. It takes a village, if you will, but to your point, it is super important that we talk about and I maybe pivot. The question here is not when should you leave your current boss, but what are the three things maybe I would suggest you do to determine if the time is right, because I can't say that four months, no less than four months, no greater than nine months, a square root of six, but I can say, look, we've got to. There's a couple of things that I'd suggest you take a look at before you make that kind of decision.

Yeah, all right. So I think that's really good, and also every person's different, so you have to really be thoughtful about that. So give us the tips and we'll go from there. What's number one?

Yeah, I think the first thing is exactly what a great lead in that is is that you have to assess the values of that of your boss and really know if you have an alignment In this particular example. If your boss will just keep calling a boss for lack of a better term, isn't really their goal and their values are not about getting you promoted. Maybe that they are looking at success in a different way. Maybe success to them is everything is common. There is no change versus growth.

You have to assess those values and see if those values are going to work for you for the short term, because if you don't have that alignment, I think you'll be challenged.

Yeah, I think I was just an assignment cynic training yesterday and he's famous for why. But he also talked about your just cause and the just cause Does your just cause align with your boss, those values, those things where you're going? So if you don't have that alignment, then it doesn't have the I don't want to reuse the word value but the benefit of continuing to move you forward, because that misalignment can really cause friction.

Well, I think it causes friction and also, in my case, my, my experience, where I've had that situation it does. It actually inhibits my ability to bring my full self to the job oh yeah, the job, because I don't feel like I'm working in the same direction. I mean, I don't need a boss and a leadership team for us all to be in the same car, heading in the same direction. But, boy, if I find that you know on a regular basis that we're not aligned, that really, that, just that hurts and it doesn't Allow me to be fulfilled.

Yeah, okay. So I guess, how do you know that is? It is a feeling like how do you assess that for yourself?

I Just think it's a matter of getting to know your boss, obviously that this kind of does put a time frame around this. I mean it's hard to say that your values are not aligned on the first day, yeah. But you know I can say, I know scenarios and I know some of our listeners are working for people that they knew before they. You know, literally the first day there was a value misalignment because the values of that particular leader were front and center and they're in their identity and that was hard and and these are pretty serious Deltas and in the way that people think and behave and and you have to make some serious decisions.

And so sometimes you know it's a Maybe, a sticker on their desk that says this is me, and you know right away, or make time, make me take time and in the example that you gave, that it's gonna take a little time for you to understand that maybe that there's not a values alignment. Maybe it's subtle, maybe it maybe first realize it that it's not that big of a deal and then over time you realize you know what this is a game changer or Deal breaker and you realize that you can't go forward with that. You know values are a squishy thing. They're not always easy and cut and dry and the value of the importance in the hierarchy of your values as a human being Can change over time. So this is harder for you to do and that's why I put it first. Is it something you really need to put energy and focus on to say look, check your values. Alignment.

Awesome, I love that one. All right, what's number two?

The second one is really to assess the growth opportunity for them with that role. Yeah, sometimes, yeah, you you do have a mismatch on your values. But if there is a huge opportunity here, if it does open doors for you, if it does Enable you to do to meet some goals that you have in your career, you really need to take that into consideration. Like I was mentioning earlier, you know your boss, your line manager, is going to provide you certain things, and if that's not there, then maybe you get them elsewhere for the opportunity, for the experience. And I think that you know the individual you were talking to mentioned that they were wondering if this was a growth opportunity for them. You know there's. There's there's growth through suffering and then there's growth through the role and the opportunity that role brings. I think those are very different things, but I think it's important for you to look at what that role and that job will bring to the table, because they're you don't want to throw away an opportunity.

Yeah, and you know those things, that those molding done doesn't just come from the boss, not just from the person. That growth area you also have to have some idea of where you want to go or where you want to grow and articulate that to the boss as well, and when they can understand and give you the context to allow you to also Develop in that area, that really proves some alignment between you and your boss.

Absolutely, absolutely and and that's the key right you. That's what that's successful. That's a successful relationship if you have one, but you know if you're, you have a misalignment on your values. But this particular role is going to give you the opportunity to work in an ecosystem you haven't done before, allow you to travel and work out of a different office country, expose you to stakeholders and people that you wouldn't have done before. Then maybe you know you. You wait that Further and more than maybe on the value. So I think that's you know. When you look at these items, you want to look at the values proposition and you want to look at the growth opportunity.

Yep, okay, and what's the third?

And the third one is you know, get advice.

Um, I always like to remind people that, that your perspective is your perspective and you know this goes back to one of our fundamental pieces of advice is always you know, have have people, smart people around you Surround you, surround yourself with people you can have, uh, advice. Get advice from Like, if you don't think your values align with your boss, ask somebody else about what they think about that person's values. Non-judgementally just say, hey, you know what I get the sense that this boss thinks this way. Is that how you see it? Get some perspective, and I think that not only on the values item, but also on the opportunity. You know, if you think that this role is going to give you tremendous opportunity and you talk to others who may be your peers, who have been waiting for that same opportunity, or others who have left and said, yeah, I thought that too, but that never came to fruition, that perspective is huge, and so you really need to go out and get some input from others before you make it a suit.

Yeah, and also making sure that this is the opportunity that you need for the development, because we get like so we're so close to it, we're zoomed into it, oh that's such a great, great point that you know, sometimes you get enamored by a certain piece of the puzzle and you forget the bigger picture.

Yeah, somebody will say something to you. Hey, you know what there might be international travel here, so you, you're all excited about that and that may blind you to the other challenges or the fact that you know, yes, one out of every 27 people on this team gets to go, you know, to Mexico once. That's not an international travel experience, so you do really need to make sure your perspective is good.

Yeah, and the other thing that I really that's coming to me in thinking about the values and really being challenged is that idea of trust trust with your boss, because you also need to be able to say, hey, I need your support here or I'm. I need some ideas, like, if you don't have that open dialogue so that you can be at your best, and they'll have your back. That that's. That's like the fourth kind of the bonus thing is what is that? Trust, yeah exactly right.

And if you, I think, if you do that, that values alignment, and you look at the challenge of the work and you get some, you know, some feedback and but your gut is telling you you just can't, there is no trust here, yeah, and I think maybe that's that's a bigger. Bigger issue than all three is that you know, we have to have trust, we have to have faith, you know, and those things are critical for that relationship to work. And and you know, I know a lot of people who've worked for, for people who they just simply don't trust, and that those are short-term gigs, absolutely Intentionally or unintentionally. They typically are, because those just that's not. That's not how leaders grow and that's how leaders grow people.

And so I think, looking at looking at trust as a fundamental element, there is huge.

All right. So what are the three again?

Well, the first one, obviously you know, assess your values and make sure that you have values alignment. Yeah, I think it's key that you're working. You know we are all rolling in the same direction. Second, you know, evaluate the growth that comes with that role. Are you going to get something greater out of this? Is this going to really ask? You know, accelerate your growth, bring you to a different level. Are you getting exposed to other folks? What's going to happen here? Evaluate that. And then, third, you know, get some input from others. Make sure that you're have, you have a good perspective on this. Are you looking at it the right way? I think that's so important, yeah, and then, as you put it, you know, maybe the, the overarching umbrella here is evaluate how much trust is in this relationship. If you don't have, you know, feel like there is a there's a trust element to the equation, then then perhaps you know, leaving is is probably the right choice.

You know what I love about this topic too, is it? It's why not just think about these things with your relationship with your boss even if you're not questioning whether it's a good relationship or not but just think where are we on this, and and is it worth?

it.

Even a conversation, yeah, so many people forget and you get lost in your day to day. You're tackling the day to day problems and you find yourself working in an environment that maybe isn't fulfilling You're, you have the Sunday afternoon, you know blahs and you really don't want to go to work every day. Change is hard. We have so many folks and I'm sticking with jobs that aren't fulfilling. But if you can go back and say, look, here's the fundamental three things that I need to take a look at, or three plus one in this case, today is the bonus round day and if you're finding, look, this is really a pretty basic math here I've got zero for four with my, my boss, Maybe that's the problem and maybe that'll help you decide this is time for a change.

Awesome. Those were great. I think this was a good episode, it's great topic, such a good topic. Thank you clients for bringing us your problems.

Thanks for bringing that forward, super fun and quicksters those two those are the two buckets.

So well, this has been quick take we. We so appreciate hearing from you guys. James and I are both on LinkedIn. Please connect with us DMS, give us your you know question that's on your mind. We'd love to hear from you.

Yep, love to hear your thoughts. I've been getting a lot of messages on a couple episodes. So great dialogue. Always love to hear from everybody.

Thanks for joining us. We appreciate. I appreciate you, james.

And I appreciate you, Susan.

And we appreciate you for being here and listening. So thank you. Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take, where we talk about the questions that are on the minds of executives everywhere. Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

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