Leadership Lessons with Mike Fontaine

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you

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get targeted advice and coaching for executives by

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executives.

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I'm Suzy Tominczuk.

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Speaker 2: And I'm James Capps.

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Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to

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address the complex topic of issues that are challenging

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executives like you today.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Quick Take.

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We have a very, very special episode, james, tell us about it

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.

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Speaker 2: Today we are going to spend some time with Mike

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Fontaine with Lucid Point.

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Lucid Point is a cloud consulting company I had had

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quartered here in Denver.

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They work primarily with companies who are partnering

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with AWS and Google.

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Mike and his firm are a proud sponsor of Quick Take, and so we

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thought we'd spend some time getting to know him and the

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company and talk about his leadership skills and how he got

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to where he is.

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Mike, welcome to the program.

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Speaker 3: Well, thank you very much.

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I appreciate it.

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Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 2: We're just thrilled to have you here.

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Thanks so much for taking the time, as we all of our listeners

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don't be an executive as a time-consuming and relentless

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situation, so why don't we start with, maybe, why don't you give

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us a little background about yourself and kind of how you got

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to where you are Sure?

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Speaker 3: Hopefully I won't go back too far, but I actually

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graduated from the Air Force Academy.

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I always wanted to be a fighter pilot.

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That was my dream, since I was six or seven years old and was

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lucky enough to be an F-15 pilot in the Air Force.

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Wow, I did that for 10 years and kind of did everything I

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ever wanted to do.

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And when I left, I wanted to come back to Colorado, of course

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, and actually turned down a job with United Airlines.

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All my friends were going to go be airline pilots.

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I went to work for a startup IT company in 1999, at the height

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of the dot-bomb era, if anyone is old enough to remember that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a risky situation, yeah.

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So, I learned a lot.

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Speaker 3: After a bunch of time in technology, about six years

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ago I had this crazy idea even though I had four kids, two in

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college we decided to start our own business.

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So obviously I'm a thrill seeker, right.

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Speaker 2: Clearly a man who's okay with risk and taking the

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giant leap.

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So that's amazing.

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So the firm that you're with now is the manifestation of what

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really is three different, or at least certainly the Air Force

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and that startup.

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Talk to me about that journey and how you, the kind of lessons

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you've learned, certainly as a cadet graduate and an Air Force

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pilot.

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Talk to me about the things you learned there that perhaps have

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paid dividends in your role as CEO at Lucidpoint.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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I always had a bit of an entrepreneurial spirit, even

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when I was in the Air Force.

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Being a fighter pilot is a bit of a young man's game, but IT

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had similar challenges.

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I always enjoyed being part of a high-performing, fast-moving

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team, and the great thing about information technology is you

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need to be learning.

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If you're not learning, you're falling behind and things change

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.

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That's kind of the way the military was as well.

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You're always kind of studying the competition and trying to

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keep up and trying to get better .

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So I just I love being part of a team.

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We have a fantastic team at Lucidpoint and it's very

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enjoyable just that environment and doing good things for good

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people.

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Speaker 2: Did you find that?

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I mean, obviously the military has a structure and a code and

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the people are taught a certain way to deal with leadership.

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Did you have to change your style as a leader as you got

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into the startup ecosystem versus maybe even now at

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Lucidpoint?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I think I'm still working on it, I'm

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still learning each and every day.

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But yeah, it's.

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You know you, the military is fairly bureaucratic and fairly

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rigid and you have to be creative to work your ways

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around that and some of that translates.

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But you know the other, that kind of challenge that a lot of

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military people have when they leave the military is the

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military is your whole life, your friends, your ecosystem,

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your identity, and there's no kind of concept of just punching

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a clock, and so a lot of people struggle with that.

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But it's, frankly, it's been so long I, you know, I'm so used

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to the IT world I don't remember exactly the military world,

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other than I I did have a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, is that like you like having a baby?

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You forget all the bar, the bad parts and you just kind of move

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on.

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Speaker 1: Yes you know, I often get you know and maybe there's

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a parallel to, since you have an engineering background, a

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degree and going into leadership , like a lot of those folks that

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come from the technology side Like want to really invest in

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how do I become a good leader and what, what are the skills

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that I need and what, what?

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What is transposed from being from an engineering background?

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Like, can you find any parallels to to that or any

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advice you'd give to somebody up up?

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I'm coming through that, through that path.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely so.

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One of the things I watched early on in my IT career and I

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started, you know, I started in the data center knock and at the

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time we didn't have a A weekend night technician, so I would,

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you know, I came out of the military thinking I was the bees

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knees and you know, there I am working nights and weekends and

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but it was, it was still fun.

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But I've noticed that a lot of really successful entrepreneurs

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had, you know, had a partner who had maybe a little different

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skill sets, and so Again back to that team concept.

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You can't be good at everything , so having you know, either a

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mentor or a peer or somebody who's Not exactly like you and

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looks at things a different way, I think can be very powerful.

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I'm a big believer, you know, the the military, you get the

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benefit of a lot of leadership training, which is awesome.

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Obviously, the Air Force Academy does that as well and

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and I'm not sure the military necessarily teaches this but I

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I'm a big believer in kind of servant leadership where, you

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know, I feel like I I work for all of the teammates at Lucid

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Point, like my job is to help them, not the other way around.

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And I think I don't know.

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I just think that that feels good to me and I like helping

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people and so, being that servant leadership Style fits

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for my personality.

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I think everyone needs to kind of fit their their own

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leadership style to their own personality and not, you know

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you again, you can't be good at good at everything and so, you

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know, stick to what you're good at.

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I.

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Speaker 2: Like where you're going with that, and I think you

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know, one of the pieces of advice I often give people is

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you know, if you're leading with your genuine self, do that much

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better.

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And if you try to, you know, wear the suit that maybe your

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boss or your mentor is telling you to wear.

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Your it's not gonna fit, it's not gonna be the comfort that

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you'd like and you're not gonna be true, and I think that that's

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that's great Advice, especially when you're focusing on servant

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leadership.

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I think that so many Executives talk the talk and want to be

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servant leaders, but it's it's not in their, their DNA.

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They're very much command and control.

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Let's talk about servant leadership a little more, and

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can you tell me some of the things, perhaps, that you ask or

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Advise your teams to do when you describe servant leadership?

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You know, when somebody comes to you and says you know, help

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me, do more of that, are there things that maybe you recommend?

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Or or you know maybe some, some artifacts or ceremonies that

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you undertake to to ensure that you're leading in that fashion?

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Speaker 3: Well, we try and have very open, honest and direct

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feedback and it's not always, you know, it's not all positive.

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So we just recently did a 360 review and I love like self

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deprecating humor.

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I just, I just, you know, fighter pilots have egos right

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and you know I like to joke that I'm a legend in my own mind and

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all that stuff.

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And I got some feedback that you know, hey, it's.

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It's not nice if our CEO says he's the dumbest guy in the room

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, like that's not confidence building.

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So I think you know we have a lot of.

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You know we all crave feedback and I think it makes us better.

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It's not always good and sometimes as an organization we

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get into some heated debates internally.

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You know, like a family, at the end of the day we all try and

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have dinner together but it's not always.

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You know, we're not always on the same page and all going in

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the same direction and sometimes we need to talk about it.

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I think, as a military person, a former military, a lot of

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times there's a joke of like we don't want to get too far

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outside the campfire and so I kind of joke that.

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You know, normally I would just surround myself with other

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fighter pilots and we'd all tell each other what a great job

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we're doing.

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Yeah, that doesn't do anyone any good.

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So so, having some people who you know, who look at things

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from a different angle, that's really healthy.

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And having some real debates, you know, to keep those egos in

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check, right?

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You know, the older we get, the more experience we have and we

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think we know things, and so I think you know, being open to

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that, that honest debate and getting more input, is healthy.

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We try and do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes me think about, like from an

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engineering perspective, from a technology.

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You have to be curious, you have to really think about and

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ask questions from a lot of different angles and so, if you

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can frame it for yourself in that way that it's an

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exploration of understanding that different perspective, I

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always like this, like I, there's a great book called

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Thanks for the Feedback that I always talk about and one of the

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things that was such an aha for me when I read it, because I

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grew up in corporate America where feedback was done annually

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and so when anybody would bring up that that that word, it'd be

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like oh you know, I have to get myself geared up for this, but

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you know, it's that idea that our blind spots, or experiencing

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ourselves from the outside, is something we will never be able

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to do on our own.

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Ever, no matter how much feedback we get, we don't know

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what it's like to be in our own presence and what that feels

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like, and so it's amazing, I will say to be in your presence

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is amazing.

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This is confusing.

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Speaker 2: Good to know I just want you to make sure that that

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was documented here.

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So you know that I was a good softball player.

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Right, I threw that one for you .

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That was yeah.

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Speaker 1: But I think, like from my technology, when you

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were talking and thinking about being curious, that's what

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really came to mind.

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For me is being able to be open to that and listening in a way

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that you understand what people are saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's.

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It takes effort to keep up.

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I mean, things change so fast, so I think that's the fun part,

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but it can also be a bit overwhelming.

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You know we do.

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We primarily do Google Cloud work.

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We also do a lot of AWS work, but those platforms are

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constantly changing.

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They're launching new products all the time and it's you know,

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it's it's keeping up with different languages and it's you

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know there's a lot of time in the background just trying to

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keep up and learning.

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But I guess that's also the fun part.

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I wouldn't want to be in a job where you weren't learning and

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trying to get better every day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I would assume it also applies to the fact that

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you're a consultant, right and so, while even if you are going

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to do on a Google implementation today at one firm, you know

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that next company is going to have a completely different set

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of problems and challenges and and you know, talk to me about

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the criticality of being a good listener there you know that

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feedback, that feedback loop, obviously huge, important within

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the company, within your ranks, but certainly as a consultant,

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I'm assuming it's even more critical.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean.

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My other favorite joke is my wife says I'm not very

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empathetic.

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But I feel like as a organization we're very

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empathetic.

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You know, a lot of our folks are very experienced and we know

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kind of the old way of doing things and the new way of doing

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things and you know it's easy, my kids are all off the payroll

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and supporting themselves but it's, you know, their

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perspective.

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They don't know the old way of doing things and why people

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still have, you know, mainframes and things like that in their

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technology staff, and so I feel like one of our superpowers is

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the fact that we understand, you know, the old way and the new

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way.

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We can't bridge the gap and you know the new way is pretty cool

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and pretty smart, but it's not always the best way.

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Sometimes there's a reason to keep old stuff around and so you

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know, I like to think as an organization we're empathetic.

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Speaker 2: I assume that, obviously, to be empathetic as

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an organization, that's got to be some skill or attribute that

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you and your leadership team leverage.

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Do you think empathy is one of the powers that makes your firm

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different from others?

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Speaker 3: I don't know.

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I think we hire really good people and let them do what they

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need to do and try and empower people.

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It's not always easy, especially as a large ego

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fighter pilot.

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Sometimes I think my way is best.

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We have some really smart people and the more I sit back

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and let them make decisions and do things, the happier we all

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are.

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I just try and do that that's always good advice.

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Speaker 2: That couldn't have described certain leadership any

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better than that I think.

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Speaker 1: You know what comes with that is just trust.

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That's what really builds that Good leaders are able to.

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You can't just say trust me, you have to show it.

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That's really the best way to do it.

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I wonder what you think about parenting and being a parent and

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how that has really influenced any part of your leadership.

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Is there any stories you can tell us about that?

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Speaker 3: I think I'm a better dog parent than a people parent.

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Some of the mistakes I made as a parent was I didn't want to

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let my kids fail when they were younger.

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My son forgets his homework and I know it's super important and

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I don't want him to get a bad grade and then he won't get into

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a good college and then he won't.

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I start thinking about those things and I run his homework to

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school before work and my wife says what are you doing?

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You have to let people fail.

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You have to give them enough, because you have to learn those

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lessons along the way, otherwise the consequences just get

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greater and greater.

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I've learned that, especially engineers.

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Susie, to your point, you can't just say I trust you.

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You have to earn that status and they need to save space.

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Technology is hard and there's a lot of experimenting, and so

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they need to really save space to do their best.

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We have to trust them.

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Maybe I've learned the hard way through my four kids.

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Speaker 2: Those are tough lessons and we joke a lot about

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the glaring clarity of hindsight , especially with our kids.

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Our employees get to benefit from that.

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Our employees benefit from all of our experiences, and I think

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that that's the nature of the beast.

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When I think about that for me, it makes me think about mentors

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and folks that were key to my success.

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I've got whether it was a particular college professor who

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took a moment to really explain Diffie Q to me, or if it was an

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employee who made sure that I was in the loop when it came to

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corporate politics.

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Is there somebody that comes to mind, and how did they really

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help you be successful or help you where you are today?

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Speaker 3: I think there was a lot of really strong leadership

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by example both in my military and civilian career Some really

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fantastic entrepreneurs who just cared about their people and

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ran successful businesses.

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And so I don't know if it's and I'm still good friends with a

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lot of those people today but also just watching people be

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just extremely good at what they do.

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I have this funny story where when I was learning to fly the

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F-15, one of my instructors was the person who had the most

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experience in the F-15 on the planet and he was this older

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gentleman and he was just so relaxed and everything was just

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so like, you know, like I was just sweating bullets and your

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instructor's actually in a different plane.

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You're the wingman, he's the flight lead and you know he's

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just calm and cool and he talks on the radio.

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And just watching someone be just so masterful at what they

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do is always kind of inspired me to just be really good.

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And we, you know, we've hired some really strong people who

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just take such pride in their work.

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I just really respect that, so it makes life fun for me each

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and every day.

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Speaker 2: You know you make a really interesting point that

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I've seen a consistency among a lot of great leaders where

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oftentimes there is a mentor or somebody that they

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affectionately remember, but so often it is that constant

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learning.

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It's the lead.

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You know, learning by example.

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In this situation, I saw this particular leader do it this way

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, or she handled it this way and he handled it that way, and

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it's never.

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You know, maybe there are one or two, but in general it's the

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aggregate of that.

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Do you think that that's really what we're talking about here

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is?

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Being a leader is about finding learning opportunities wherever

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they might be.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and it's the only good part about getting

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older is that you learn.

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You don't know as much as you really think you do, and so the

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more you can you know, watch what works for other people, the

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more you open up your mind.

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It's helped me a lot, because, you know, when I was much

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younger I thought I had it all figured out.

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Now I realize I didn't, so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I find that that particular openness is what

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ensures that I continue to learn about new employees from

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different parts of the world.

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I have staff all over the planet learning different

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cultures, different technical backgrounds.

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You know those database weirdos .

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They're totally different than the Java weirdos and so you know

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you got to learn that kind of situation.

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And then, obviously, generational, there's just, you

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know, a very different way of looking at things in some ways

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and I think as a leader it's so critical that you realize, you

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know that there's always a learning opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, what I love is the whole idea of

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silence and putting that in Sometimes.

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I was talking to somebody recently that's an executive and

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the advice that I gave them on what they needed to do to show

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up differently is to put space, you know, when he asks a

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question or when somebody asks a question of him, to just put

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space in, because sometimes we jump in too fast.

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And I think back on one of my coaches, back when James, you

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and I used to work together.

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You know him well.

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John McKee would say to me do you know the way to know wisdom

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is in the room, is the person that's just silently observing

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and not trying to prove that they know.

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And I've always thought what a great lesson to think about

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practice wisdom, you know, practice just being still and

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allowing other people, especially as we are more mature

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or seasoned, it's a little bit easier to stay calm in that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's good advice.

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I need to write that one down, susie, because we're also spring

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loaded.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the wisdom, practice, the wisdom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we're also spring loaded to answer the

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question right, solve the problem in technology Totally,

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and it's you know.

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Sometimes you just sit back and listen.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, can you think of something like when you

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look back on your career.

00:21:52
Is there like a moment that either you were, you look back

00:21:56
and like good thing it turned out that way, or that you're

00:21:58
just like I'm really proud of of how this turned out?

00:22:02
Can you share with us some some moment in that, that journey?

00:22:08
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember, you know, wondering if I was too

00:22:12
old to start a business.

00:22:13
You know, if you think back, the best time to start a

00:22:18
business is when you know, when you're really young.

00:22:21
And if it doesn't work out, you can sleep on your buddy's couch

00:22:24
and everything your own fits in the trunk of your car.

00:22:27
And so so I did a lot of research and I thought I thought

00:22:32
, all right, well, it's now or never.

00:22:34
And luckily I have a fantastic business partner, kevin Seba,

00:22:39
who we started together and that really helped just having a you

00:22:43
know, having a buddy to do it together.

00:22:46
But I look back on it now and I just wonder what was I thinking

00:22:52
?

00:22:52
Because I mean it turned out fine but it no-transcript.

00:22:58
I don't know.

00:22:58
It was a risky move at the time , but again, there's never a

00:23:02
good time.

00:23:03
So I'm proud that it worked out well.

00:23:06
I hope it still works out.

00:23:08
We're doing great.

00:23:08
We're actually hiring some more folks right now.

00:23:11
So, knock on wood, so far so good, but it's quite a leap to.

00:23:18
We didn't pay ourselves for a year and we didn't take any

00:23:22
outside investments and just betting on ourselves that we

00:23:28
could make it.

00:23:29
We saw this, we saw the cloud coming and we didn't think that

00:23:36
some of the companies that we had interviewed with we wanted

00:23:38
to stay as a team.

00:23:39
We didn't think they could fulfill the journey, and so we

00:23:44
felt like we had to start fresh, to be what we wanted to be.

00:23:48
And it worked out, I'll say, you know, probably lucky, right

00:23:53
place at the right time.

00:23:54
But it was very risky, riskier than I thought at the time.

00:23:59
Now that I look back in hindsight.

00:24:00
But again, that's easy for me to sit now, six years later,

00:24:03
right?

00:24:04
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's fantastic.

00:24:05
I love the, just the risk appetite of taking that leap,

00:24:11
and obviously can't help but assume that some of that muscle

00:24:16
memory was learned in the cockpit.

00:24:21
Yeah, that's a huge ability to take that kind of risk, even if

00:24:30
you're not 23 and can live on the couch.

00:24:32
Speaker 1: And so what do you see in the future?

00:24:34
Tell us what it looks like moving forward.

00:24:37
What are you looking forward to ?

00:24:39
What's the company looking at doing Like with all this talk of

00:24:42
AI and everything that's on the horizon?

00:24:45
What does that look like for you?

00:24:47
Speaker 3: You know it's all exciting.

00:24:48
It is the AI as an overwhelming separate subject.

00:24:54
Right, we're all hearing about it.

00:24:56
We just want to continue to grow and do good things.

00:24:59
We don't, you know there's no, we don't manage to any sort of

00:25:04
exit strategy at some point.

00:25:06
Someday I'll have to retire, but my wife said that I would drive

00:25:11
her crazy if I retired.

00:25:12
So we just want to run a good company with a good group of

00:25:15
folks, and I truly enjoy our clients.

00:25:18
I mean, maybe everybody says that, but we have just really

00:25:23
good clients and we just have fun and we don't have any, I

00:25:29
don't know.

00:25:29
We just enjoy solving problems for our clients and helping them

00:25:36
out, and it's not always easy, but it's just good folks that we

00:25:40
get to work with and so it's enjoyable each and every day.

00:25:42
And I don't know what I would do without it, because working

00:25:47
with a high-performing team is what I've always loved doing and

00:25:49
I get to do that every day.

00:25:51
And so we don't have any grand plans.

00:25:54
We just want to keep on trucking.

00:25:56
We're continuing to grow, we've brought on some people and

00:26:01
we're now coast to coast.

00:26:02
So we're from, we have people from California to Maine.

00:26:05
We have some international plans, so it's been good, but no

00:26:11
grand plans.

00:26:12
Just keep on trucking.

00:26:13
Speaker 2: I love it.

00:26:14
Well, gosh with that.

00:26:16
I think it's a great place for us to stop, mike, this has been

00:26:18
a lot of fun getting to know you and understanding what

00:26:22
motivates you, so thank you so much for joining us today

00:26:25
Absolutely.

00:26:26
Speaker 3: I appreciate the time and keep knowing what you're

00:26:28
doing.

00:26:28
I enjoy the podcast Fantastic.

00:26:30
Speaker 1: Thank you.

00:26:31
We love it.

00:26:31
And make sure that Mike up look at Lucid Point as well.

00:26:36
Make sure that you tell them what you thought, share your

00:26:40
leadership story with him as well.

00:26:43
So thanks for joining us.

00:26:45
Feel free to share this episode with somebody you think that

00:26:48
would love it.

00:26:49
Make sure you reach out.

00:26:50
James and I are both on LinkedIn, so message us and let

00:26:54
us know what you thought of this .

00:26:55
So with that, until next time, and just remember we really

00:27:00
appreciate you.

00:27:00
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take,

00:27:05
where we talk about the questions that are on the minds

00:27:08
of executives everywhere.

00:27:09
Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

00:27:12
Speaker 2: You can find us on LinkedIn, youtube or whatever

00:27:15
nerdy place on the internet.

00:27:16
You find your podcasts.

00:27:17
All the links you really did are in the show notes.