Listening to Understand [Back to Basics Part 1]

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you

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get targeted advice and coaching for executives by

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executives.

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I'm Suzy Tominczuk.

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Speaker 2: And I'm James Capps.

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Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to

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address the complex topic of issues that are challenging

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executives like you today.

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Speaker 1: Hey, everyone Welcome .

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Or I should say hey, Quicksters , Welcome to.

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Speaker 2: Quick Take.

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Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Suzy and this is James.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Hello Quicksters.

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Speaker 1: That was unplanned, but look how well that went, so

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welcome.

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Speaker 2: Hey, james, very little of this was planned.

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Fair, you make it sound like this is all planned, except for

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that.

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Speaker 1: Fair All right.

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So, on that note, I was thinking today about a

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conversation I had.

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I was facilitating a group this week and their director level,

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I'll just say and I was talking about their boss, because I do

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one-on-ones with their boss and one of the things that I've

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talked to their boss about he's a VP about really being a good

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listener, because a lot of times bosses aren't good listeners or

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leaders are not good listeners, and so I was talking to the

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group about his style and what he did, and when I brought that

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up, everybody in the room kind of laughed, because he does not

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stop talking.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

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It's along the lines of when you're good, you do a good

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interview If you can get the person interviewing you to do

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all the talking.

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People who do all the talking think you are smart.

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They like you more when they do all the talking.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there is a very weird point of view on that.

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I think that's true.

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I mean socially, being a good question giver does create

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because you make people think, and then they like you more

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because they think you're smart yeah.

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Speaker 2: That's a total fact, and I have had so many

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experiences where I see people that are like, oh my gosh, he's

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such a good questioner, he asks such good questions, and that is

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something that I have really endeavored to get better at,

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because it is a skill that is.

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I think we do a great job of raising our little humans to

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answer questions and not ask them, and so it's a shift from

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our brains to be a good, respectful and intelligent

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question askers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I guess if that's a good indication that

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you're listening, if somebody tells you you're a good question

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giver, that should be feedback we look for.

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In fact, I get that a lot.

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My daughter told me that her husband doesn't like when I come

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over because I ask him any questions and he feels like he's

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on the spot.

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Speaker 2: So I've had to learn to like I ask so many questions.

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I don't know if that's a good use case there, because that's

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family.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: But we may have to edit that out.

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Speaker 1: But my point is if people are saying you ask a lot

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of questions, that might be a good indication that you are

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listening.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree.

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It's very difficult to ask pertinent questions if you're

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not paying attention, and I think that that goes to when

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somebody really smart once told me that instead of thinking

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about what you were going to say next, you should think about

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the next question you ask.

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Speaker 1: Brilliant.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and just for the record, that was you who

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told me that you were the really smart person, so that's a

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really great I think.

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That's my number one thing, my first of my three great

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recommendations, that is number one that when you're sitting

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there and like I think we all know that person where you can

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tell that they are just championing at the bit to say

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the thing they've been wanting to say, and sometimes they get

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so lost in what you're saying that you've moved on to another

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topic and they're going to go back three topics ago People are

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often more interested about what they have to say next.

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The one upspins the me twos, but though, you know, the really

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interesting people are the ones that are thinking about the

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next question to ask.

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And so First advice, first big takeaway I would give is to be a

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good listener.

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Think about the thing you're going to ask next.

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Speaker 1: Have you started incorporating that?

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Speaker 2: I do it all the time.

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You know it's funny how you get caught up and it's very meta

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when you start thinking about the thing you're going to say

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and then you start thinking about why you think you need to

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say that, and then you start thinking about the question and

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it does give you, if nothing else, an incredible amount of

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presence and you being very aware of the conversation, and I

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think that's the most interesting thing is really just

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being present in the discussion versus, you know, making a

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narcissistic addition to the conversation.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I just did it to you instead of commenting.

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Speaker 2: I know I saw that coming.

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You did not.

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Now you're saying that, but you know.

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Speaker 1: The another thing, to be honest, is, sometimes I

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worry that I'm going to forget my point and so I try to think

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about, like thinking about the next question.

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But if I do think, I'll quickly jot down a word or two so that

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I can come back to it, so I can kind of honor the person in

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front of me.

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But thinking about the next question.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think that's the presence right, and I think

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that's about being present.

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And sometimes, sir, you know you can get like when I moderate

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panels I barely have any idea what people are saying, right,

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because I'm 1000% thinking about the next four questions, yeah,

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and so I'm not interested in what they're saying, mostly

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because I'm really interested in getting them to say it so that

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the audience can hear it.

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But it does take like an entire different part of my brain to

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be thinking about the next few questions, and so it's just a

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really interesting muscle and you have to give it some time.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Get your mindset around them and not you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the second piece of advice I think

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dovetails on that really well, which is and I think this is

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also a Susie, tom and Chuck special which is that your

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question should be less, no more than seven words.

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So what that means is ask what's?

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How do you put it?

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You said it so succinctly.

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How do you say it?

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Speaker 1: You ask a question that's so short that it doesn't

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have any of the answer in it.

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It's just, it's very general, it's a very general question

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that makes them think.

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So seven words or less.

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Speaker 2: Seven words or less.

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Seven words or less than your question forces.

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And it makes me laugh how often people ask questions with an

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answer.

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Or, my favorite, the most hated is when people what is the

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phrase?

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When they undermine or they caveat, or they somehow pre, pre

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, undersell the statement.

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And it is.

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It is a, it's a habit and I know a lot of us do it.

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But ultimately, boy, if you're thinking like number one, I

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should be asking more questions.

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I'm going to start thinking about the questions.

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To my question is you're not going to have any sort of

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caveats or precursors or understatements, I'm just going

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to ask the question.

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It's going to be seven words or less.

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That's an engagement.

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That's a powerful way of ensuring that you have a

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conversation.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, and that came from Gallup, by the way,

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that's not mine.

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And also just to give an example of that, I had to talk.

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I told one of my clients this week.

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I noticed that she always starts a her answer with this is

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just my opinion, but and I'm like stop there's no reason for

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that.

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I know it's your opinion.

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Speaker 2: If it's not your opinion, feel free to say that.

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But the reality is that we know it came out of your mouth.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a really good one.

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It takes away from your point, so it does, it does.

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It waters it down.

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Okay, so what's your third one?

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Speaker 2: My third one is you know, I always like to really

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work hard to make sure that people that are part of the

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conversation are all included and inclusive engagement,

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inclusive conversations are much more interesting and I do feel

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a lot of power comes, as a leader, for you to turn to

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somebody and say, hey, jerry, what's your thoughts, rachel,

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how do you feel about this?

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And again, less than seven words in my question, but you

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know, encouraging people to be part of the conversation goes a

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long way and invariably those people will say something along

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the lines of well, I was going to bring this up or I wanted to

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say this, but I couldn't find a word or couldn't find a moment.

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Not everybody has the sharp elbows and quick wit to be able

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to respond and interject at that given moment, and affording

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them the opportunity to be part of the discussion makes that,

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you know, that type of conversation so much more

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powerful.

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Speaker 1: I think that's great.

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I think another thing as a facilitator, I believe that when

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you call on people, it takes away the pressure of having a

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really thought out answer.

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They can kind of think on their .

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So it doesn't, it doesn't feel as perfected, so I think it also

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gives them a little bit of ease .

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it takes the pressure off.

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You know, I get.

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There's a double-edged sword, right?

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I mean, nobody wants to be called on there.

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Some people well, let's just put it this way Some people

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would love to be called on because they don't feel like

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they need to have a great answer .

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Other people would rather have a stick poked in their eye than

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be called on, so it isn't the same for everyone.

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But your point is really valid, which is, you know, calling on

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people does give them license to speak, if nothing else.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, I think that's an interesting

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point I want to just kind of dwell on for a minute is if you

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are building a leadership team that needs to build that muscle,

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it's up to you to also give them those opportunities to make

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them a little bit uncomfortable so that they can show up that

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way, so they get a little bit more comfortable, instead of

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feeling like they.

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Maybe they always will feel like they want that stick in

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their eye.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, you know, I think that the nuance there and

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I have a person that I worked with for a long time, who worked

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directly for me, who had a very different style than I did and

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I was younger in my career, and so I worked really hard to make

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her like me Okay, I'm going to get you into Toastmasters, I'm

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going to get you in public speaking and I'm going to make

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you a great public speaker.

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And then it occurred to me, after finding that was to be

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incredibly not working, was that what I was really trying to do

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is to get her to be more influential, and she was

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influential in different ways.

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Yeah, and so by engaging, allowing her to engage and

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become influential in her own way, avoided the stick in the

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eye.

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And so I think when we, if we're talking about how to be a

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communicator, let's remember that sometimes the conference

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room isn't how it gets done.

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You know, sometimes it's the pre-meeting, sometimes it's the

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after meeting.

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You know you want to ask good questions and you want to ask

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short questions.

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We also have to know people are going to ask and influence in

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their own way.

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Speaker 1: You made such a good point that this could be a whole

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nother episode.

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But you have to individualize your leadership and think about

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what that person needs, and that's what's such a great

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question for you to ask yourself what is this person really

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trying to build and how can I help them?

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Speaker 2: Right right, right right, good stuff.

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Speaker 1: We're so smart.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this next week the Dunning-Kruger effect.

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Speaker 1: Now it affects your podcast, One of the reasons we

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were talking about doing listening, and this may seem

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like a basic thing, but I see it being a challenge for leaders

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all the time, and so you and I are going to do this is going to

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be a series of three on Back to the Basics, right?

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Speaker 2: So this is episode one of Back to the Basics, where

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we're going to touch on some other topics, and so you know,

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today Back to the Basics was really about, you know, being a

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good listener, because I think you're 100% right the more you

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speak to executives, the more I speak to executives.

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It is shocking often how some of these basics have been lost,

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how those muscles have gotten weak, flat, whatever muscles do,

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and it's important for us to revisit them.

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Speaker 1: James, what are the three points of active listening

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that you shared with us today?

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Speaker 2: I don't even remember now.

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Three active listening First and foremost, ask them questions

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Right.

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Be sure that you're thinking about the questions you want to

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ask versus you know the next thing you want to say.

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Secondly, you know, make sure your questions are short.

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Seven words or less goes a long way.

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Don't answer the question in your question, don't caveat them

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.

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Make them succinct.

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And third, you know, engage people in the listening.

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Pull people in and ensure that they get to be part of it.

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That type of conversation is just a lot more powerful.

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Speaker 1: Awesome Way to bring it home.

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Great feedback, great tips, great techniques.

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Use them today.

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How can you integrate that?

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And see, I'm bringing my coaching up here.

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How are you going to use it today?

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But we appreciate you and we would love for you to share this

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with somebody that needs to, and share it with somebody that

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isn't a good listener, right?

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Speaker 1: So if you got to this point, you know why they sent

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it to you, but otherwise, just don't not to listen to the end.

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So so share this with somebody that needs to hear it, or just

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somebody that you like and you want to get them better, and

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join us for the other episodes.

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Make sure that if you have questions for us James and I are

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both on LinkedIn We'd love to hear from you.

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Direct message us, follow us.

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We'll be back with more of those things.

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So, james, thank you.

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I appreciate you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Sussie.

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Speaker 1: And we appreciate everyone here.

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Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take,

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where we talk about the questions that are on the minds

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of executives everywhere.

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Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

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Speaker 2: You can find us on LinkedIn, YouTube or whatever

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nerdy place on the internet.

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You find your podcasts.

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All the links you really did are in the show notes.