Should I Stay or Should I Go?

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Susie: Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you get

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targeted advice and coaching for executives by executives.

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I'm Suzy Tominchuk.

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James: And I'm James Capps.

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Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to

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address the complex topic of issues that are challenging

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executives like you today.

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Susie: Hey, welcome to Quick Take.

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I'm your host, Suie Tomlinson, along with James Capps.

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How are you, James?

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James: I am so excited to be here and not ready whatsoever.

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But we hit the button and away we go.

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Susie: Yeah, we don't like to miss those moments of

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inauthenticity.

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We want to be inauthentic right here, in front of everyone.

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James: Is that like a full spectrum?

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Susie: Like that is super authentic.

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James: I mean, it's so unauthentic, it's real.

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Susie: We're being very vulnerable right now.

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What I want to talk about today , what we should talk about

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today, is should I stay or should I go now?

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And this came up for me because I have a client.

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James: Is that a song?

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Susie: It is.

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James: I forget who sings that.

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Who is it?

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Susie: Clash.

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James: Ah, it's Clash.

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That's right, you knew, no, that would be Flash.

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Susie: Oh, it's Flash, Is that really?

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James: Well, that's Flash Gordon .

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Oh, that's right.

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You know what I need to stay on .

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Susie: You know what I need to stay on.

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I got to stay on task.

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People are going to get to know me behind the scenes.

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We don't want that to happen.

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So I had a client.

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She was a executive in an organization that that I'm

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trying to think about how to say this without giving too much

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information.

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So she led a whole department of people and they asked me to

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coach her because she was just not everybody under her was not

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really jiving with her, not really listening to her.

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And I was talking to her and she's like I don't really know

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why people don't like me, they don't trust me, I don't know

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what's going on.

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And there was such a disconnect .

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I kept thinking there she needs to make a decision to move on.

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It's just not the right fit.

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And she was really struggling with it because she just wanted

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so badly to make it work and she so badly wanted to be

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successful.

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And so she was just, month after month, just struggling

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around it.

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So I thought maybe, if that's a good example or not, around when

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is that time to make the decision to stay or go?

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James: Yeah, you know it is a challenging one, and I think

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that so often when I talk to people about career changes and

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really just trying to figure out if they're going to get what

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they want out of their career, it's how do I look at it

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objectively?

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I think that's the real ask is, what do I need to ask myself?

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How do I need to look at the situation?

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Because you do, a lot of us get emotionally involved in our

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careers.

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We spend a lot of time thinking about it, we spend a lot of

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time with our coworkers, and so to be objective and have the

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right mindset when you're kind of thinking about it is really

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challenging.

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Susie: Yeah, I think that's especially important when it

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becomes a really difficult situation around you, because

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you tend to get a scarcity mindset, where you're not

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thinking clearly anyway, and so like you said, zooming out or

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getting some clarity, getting some objectivity is super

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important, because you could make good and bad decisions,

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totally agree.

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James: Yeah, and I think that you know, certainly, when things

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are not going well, you do tend to start to ask yourself those

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questions.

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But at any point in your career , you know, no, no different

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than doing some sort of career assessment.

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Uh, at the beginning of your resetting your goals, um, at the

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beginning of the year, you should evaluate is this my last

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year here?

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Have I, has this run its course ?

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And have those conversations with yourself.

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So you know you don't want to wait until you there's a layoff

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on the horizon or you had a lousy performance appraisal?

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You know you should look.

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I think you, you know you could , you, and I know you can wake

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up one day, having been somewhere for 12 years, and have

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no idea how it happened, and so I think it's just so important

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that you evaluate that.

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Susie: Yeah, and you also don't want to make very quick

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decisions.

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I remember for me, and you also don't want to make very quick

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decisions.

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I remember for me I was kind of getting to the end of a career

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and then a very specific situation happened that was

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highly emotional for me, where some people turned their backs

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on me and I went in the next day and I resigned because I was so

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mad and luckily, I worked for a boss that said I'm not going to

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accept your resignation until Monday, so take the weekend.

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James: And on said I'm not going to accept your resignation

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until Monday.

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Susie: So take the weekend, and on Monday I decided to stay.

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So luckily I had somebody that allowed me to at least make the

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decision objectively.

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I ended up leaving after a few weeks, but that can get in our

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way.

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James: Yeah, and I think you know that I'll jump in, and you

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know, I think the first thing that that I think people should

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do is really evaluate the cost, first and foremost, the cost of

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staying right.

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There is a the tenure tax I think is what it's called in

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higher education and and and there's just a lot of different

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ways to look at what a company can do for you to stay.

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You know, I I think of there's two leaders we talk a lot about,

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a lot about Jack Welsh and with , obviously, and Marissa Meyer,

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who is at Google.

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Marissa started really at a lower level in that company and

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worked her way up, and so the ideal situation for her was that

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she was allowed to spend time at that company.

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That loyalty was rewarded with, ultimately know, ultimately, a

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very senior role, you know, whereas Jack Welsh, he was a

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little different, you know, he was all about short-term goals,

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and so you were not rewarded for your tenure.

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It was more about what have you done for me this quarter?

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And so you need to look very effectively and very objectively

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at what the company rewards you with for your tenure, and in

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many cases, all it really is is more hours and a little bit of

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money, and so it's important for you to understand what the

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current employer is offering you for that long-term tenure.

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Susie: Are you saying that if there's not a high value there

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for you, that that should be the first decision point to leaving

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?

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James: You know I think there's a good Forbes article I was

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reading the other day and I think it was called when

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Tenure's Not Enough.

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You know, and what does you know?

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What is the executive's or not tenure?

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What is when loyalty is not enough, when your loyalty is not

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enough to keep your tenure moving?

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And I think it's really the evolving nature of how the

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C-suite and the executive leadership was treated and that,

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ultimately, that you need to evaluate how it's going to be

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rewarded.

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Susie: Yeah, and maybe also can the reward be beyond what we.

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That comes to mind automatically our title and

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compensation.

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I mean reward can be some other intangibles or not intangibles.

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Tangible things like development and feeling

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productive.

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It can be anything.

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It can be anything.

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James: I mean your ideal situation could be flexibility.

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I mean, you know so it isn't really about.

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You know the classics, but I do think that if you are sitting

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at the beginning of the year and you are doing a sort of a

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self-assessment, you have to think about what you want in

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your career and whether or not you're going to be able to get

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that at your current company, and whether they reward uh, if

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you stay there you're staying there Will you get those things?

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Susie: Yeah.

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James: And I think that's the first question to ask is what

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happens if I stay?

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Susie: Yeah, and what I like about that is getting that

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clarity from time to time, even if you're not even thinking

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about leaving.

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It gives you that you've kind of thought it through.

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James: if it is or if it's not.

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Susie: I like that a lot because it kind of helps you understand

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where you are on the map.

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James: Well, and I think the second piece of advice, which is

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just like that, is okay.

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So I've done the self-assessment, I've kind of

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checked out what's going on here .

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Can I then do something about that to create an opportunity

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here?

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Because maybe the company, your role, your department, your

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organizational structure isn't really going to reward your

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loyalty.

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Your department, your organizational structure isn't

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really going to reward your loyalty.

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Maybe, looking at that as a growth mindset where you can do

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things within the company that will get you to where you want

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to be.

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So I think we have talked about job crafting.

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We have talked about how you can start to evolve things to

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make your career a little more in line with what you want.

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And I think that you know, I know I worked with an executive

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who was working at you know a company and was struggling, and

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then he decided that he will.

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Well, he knew that he wanted to be part of more of innovation,

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and so he stood up an innovation lab.

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So he you know the company wasn't going to get into that

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space within his organization.

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He decided that he should.

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You know he could create that through working with his

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leadership team and saying, hey, I want, what I will really get

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me going is to be part of this lab.

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So he, he took the initiative and and took the growth mindset

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and created the opportunity.

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Susie: Yeah, it's, it's being that, it's having that

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entrepreneurial spirit within an organization.

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James: Yeah, yeah.

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Susie: Entrepreneurship, as they call it.

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James: Yes, exactly right, exactly right.

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Susie: Yeah, um, and also I, and I also like your idea that you

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always say that your default is always me say yes to any

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opportunity.

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So, even having that as an additional, if you're not clear

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where you want to go, be, have a growth mindset and be a little

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bit uncomfortable and say yes before you're ready.

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James: Right, right and then, and then.

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The third thing I want to talk about is what you have decided

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to go Right and, and then what?

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Susie: Yeah.

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James: And I was.

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I was literally talking to a consultant the other day um that

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, um, his, um, his, his company, uh, is specifically designed to

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help the executive craft his exit plan, his reputation

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management, um, and exit interview coaching, huh,

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interesting.

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So what they're doing, the value of this is to ensure that,

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as you leave, you're leaving on top, no matter what.

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Susie: Yeah.

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James: Even if your numbers are down, even if you're going

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through some sales slumps, technology slumps, maybe you've

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had some sort of product recall that you're going to get blamed

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for, you can still manage it.

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And so what?

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What really what this firm is doing and this consultancy, and

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what I'm suggesting is that once you make the decision that you

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are done, be thoughtful on how you go, because at the end of

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the day, we all know it's a small world and so many of us

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have crossed paths with so many of the others that we've worked

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with.

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You know I always tell people who have worked for me that I'll

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probably work for them someday, and I'm completely fine with

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that, that it's just the nature of the beast, and so going out

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effectively and in a thoughtful manner cannot be understated.

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Susie: Yeah, red carpet.

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I've worked for a company that says red carpet in, red carpet

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out also.

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Oh brilliant.

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Yeah, mindset around that as an internal as well, right.

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James: Yeah, yeah, boy, I like that a lot, but I think that's

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that's just a great way to think about it, because so many times

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we start looking at our next opportunity or the tragedy of us

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being forced to go.

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But that time of changing your point of view, I think, is

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critical.

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Susie: Yeah, all right.

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So what are the three?

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James: First, take a look at the tenure tax.

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Evaluate what is the cost of you staying.

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Am I going to get what I need by staying here and do I need to

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consider going?

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And if you do feel like you've got some things going for you,

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try job crafting.

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Try to create a situation where you can use the growth mindset

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to find that same track that you want to see elsewhere.

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Maybe you can find it where you are.

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And then, as you so well said, susie, red carpet in, red carpet

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out, craft your exit.

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Make sure that you do it.

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If you decide you need to do it , do it in a way that is very

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positive and ensure that it only builds your reputation and your

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career.

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Susie: Yeah, such an important thing to think about, because

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usually we don't take the time to really get our mindset right.

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James: Yeah, and I think about you know I talked to a lot of

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our friends that are in consultancies and in those shops

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where you know you're there for nine months or six months and

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then you leave.

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You know the exit is very important because you know the

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companies spend millions of dollars with your consultancy

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and if you walk away with a half-finished three-ring binder

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and a half-eaten sandwich, you know your reputation isn't going

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to be such that they'll bring you back or hire you again and

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so that exit, you got to think it through.

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Susie: So true, so valuable.

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Thank you, james.

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James: Good stuff.

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Susie: James, when you were 10, what did you think you were

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going to be when you grew up?

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James: You know, I always thought I'd be an engineer,

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because that's what my dad was.

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Susie: Okay.

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James: But I think that over the years, you know, I think the

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being an engineer went from being like the guy that drives

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the train all the way up to somebody who actually writes

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software.

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So I think that that was just a great way to get people to quit

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asking because nobody really knew what that was.

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So you want to drive trains?

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No, the other kind.

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Oh, okay, cool yeah.

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Susie: That is a pretty general category.

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That is a really general category.

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I mean it could be an engineer of a train at like an amusement

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park.

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James: That would be great and that is my goal, still to this

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day.

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Lakeside, if you have an opening, call me.

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I want to drive that train.

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Susie: I love that train.

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James: It's still there.

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Susie: It is, does it actually go around?

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James: Oh, hell, yeah, yeah.

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Susie: Wow.

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James: I guess I haven't been.

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Susie: Oh, I think you are smoking something.

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James: That may be true, but the train is still there, okay.

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Susie: Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick

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Take, where we talk about the questions that are on the mind

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of executives everywhere.

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Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

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James: You can find us on LinkedIn, youtube or whatever

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nerdy place on the internet.

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You find your podcasts.

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Our links to the show are in the show notes.

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We appreciate you.