Storytelling and Listening: Skills Every Executive Needs

[00:00:03] Welcome to the Quick Take Podcast, the show where you get targeted advice and coaching for executives by executives. I'm Susie Tomenchok.

[00:00:12] And I'm James Capps. Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to address the complex topic of issues that are challenging executives like you today.

[00:00:22] Hey, welcome to Quick Take. I'm your host, Susie Tomenchok, along with James Capps. I'm being very formal today, James, purposely.

[00:00:29] Good afternoon. I am full of formality. I'm wearing a tuxedo under my outfit, so that's probably why. It's holiday parties.

[00:00:37] You're actually nice to me. It's like, it's that time of year, once a year, before Santa comes. You better, you know.

[00:00:43] I will be nice today. I thought I was always nice, but all right.

[00:00:48] He's watching all year round. So I thought what would be interesting to talk about is communication. I know that sounds a little bit like wah-wah, but it's not.

[00:00:58] It's so important. And it's not something that's static. And the example that really came to mind for me this week was I was helping a client of mine get ready for basically unveiling her plan for next year.

[00:01:14] And so we talked about how do we, how do you get engagement? How do you get people to see themselves in the plan?

[00:01:20] Yeah.

[00:01:21] How do you show, like how do you illustrate through examples and stories along the way? And then how do you get people really comfortable to unmute?

[00:01:30] Because she has a pretty big group to ask questions, to show engagement, to illustrate that people are invested in what she has to say.

[00:01:38] That's such an interesting situation where, you know, people sometimes just want to go through the facts. You know, here is the milestones for the quarter. Here is the revenue goals.

[00:01:47] And if you can't really stitch that story together for your audience in a way that they appreciate and can, I love the way you said that, see themselves in that story, then yeah, they're not going to engage and they're not going to own it.

[00:02:01] And I think what happens is if as a leader, you're so engulfed in it for so long that you're looking at it, you're slicing the data and you're like, we could do this. And then we're looking at the market and you're putting together with your team, the whole plan.

[00:02:15] And then by the time it's to unveil it, there's like, it doesn't feel like a story. It feels like a data set. It feels like this work that you just want to get over. You want to like throw it on the other side and go.

[00:02:28] In fact, research shows that senior teams live with their plan for so long that by the time it's ready to communicate, they're like, check. And people need here over and over. And that's one of the reasons that it doesn't get adopted is because there's not enough intention around repeating and helping people understand and seeing themselves all those attributes.

[00:02:51] Yeah, I think that's one of the key elements of having, you know, really powerful communication is you've got to create a story around that. There's companies that I've worked with where not only do they define and decide what the budget, the forecast, the plan, the schedule is, but they also stitch together the story in which they want to communicate it.

[00:03:13] How do we reference it? And it's almost like writing a movie script. Hey, why don't we in this particular part talk about, you know, the Detroit office because they did this thing? Hey, let's, let's, let's mention this award we got last year as we describe it.

[00:03:28] And VM does this thing they call story banking, where they try to create stories that their leaders can use and leverage and adopt for their own messaging. And I think when you do that, you engage people and you also have some consistent messaging, which really goes a long way.

[00:03:44] That's super interesting. I'm really curious to, to learn more about what that is and how do you do it?

[00:03:49] In their case, and what they're really doing is that they are showcasing certain things that tie to their goals and objectives. And then when you have that showcase story, it's really something you can use or leaders can use across the entire ecosystem to take advantage of during when they're trying to cascade the message.

[00:04:06] It doesn't, you know, it's not as if there's a learning management system with a list of stories that you can check out. But what they're doing is they're essentially helping you communicate through stories that matter and stories that can be used across the organization.

[00:04:21] I think it's just a, it's a clever way of making sure that everyone is hearing the same thing and hearing it in a way that resonates.

[00:04:28] I also like that act of doing it because being creative and coming up with ideas will not only cement those for those individuals, but it also expands the, their thought around it and allows additional details.

[00:04:46] Cause sometimes storytelling, the challenge of it is what are the important aspects of it? And having that conversation would be really interesting. It's brilliant.

[00:04:55] When you coach, when you were coaching this client, did, did you get into that? I mean, I think some of the ironies, I suppose, are challenges of a storytelling is it's not, you know, it's not a nursery rhyme. We don't need that kind of story. What's your guidance there?

[00:05:10] You know, it's really funny is that everybody thinks like this business storytelling that has a lot of, you know, and, and it talks about this whole idea of how do you tell a story that helps the audience understand or see themselves in it.

[00:05:22] And, but it's not like this narrative that you're explaining this, like James and Susie went, went to the store and they got this and this and then they're coming out. And so this is how it relates to that. It's not a linear always, but it's how do you insert a story and illustration, even a few lines to help people understand what you mean.

[00:05:42] And it could be an example of like, for her, we were talking about what person in the organization did something this past year that illustrated that point. And so that's what she drew in to help people understand. And then that gets people engaged. It gets them to understand it. And then it allows them, storytelling helps people get more creative because then they kind of see how it lives in real life. When it's just on paper, it's hard to understand.

[00:06:10] That's incredibly valuable. I think that when you get that, that kind of thinking around what a true story is and, and it makes it, you know, brings it home for, for the listeners. I think that's more powerful.

[00:06:20] And I think the second tip, which builds really closely on that is these stories have to resonate. And if the story is going to resonate, it's got to be based on your knowledge. And the only way you can really know is you've got to listen. Right. And so another really great tip is about creating a forum in which you as a leader are just simply listening to what's going on with your people.

[00:06:41] You know, these, these, these listening sessions help you craft the story that you know will land. Sometimes you think you understand what's happening. You understand where people are coming from, but if you're not creating a feedback loop, you're not creating a way for you to get that information, then your stories will fall flat.

[00:07:00] Yeah. We've all seen that where somebody says, or tries to stitch together a story and it's tone deaf because frankly, the leadership wasn't listening to what was really going on in, in the company. And so if you're going to be thoughtful and do storytelling, then make sure your stories are based on what's really happening in the field.

[00:07:19] If I'm going to coach somebody around this topic, I want to remind you that we build habits around listening and we believe I have so many people that tell me they're great listeners and then I observe them and they're not, they're not. And, and part of the problem is you get so used to your regular cadence of how you go into the meeting, how you have an agenda, how you allow people, how you allow, I'm air quotes, allow everybody to share, but you need to in the moment go, all right,

[00:07:49] practice silence. Practice silence. Let that person make the point and let the silence linger. See if they have anything else to say. Ask one of the people on your team to be the one that says frames the discussion just so it changes the voice in the room and where the microphone is, is pointed because that will change the dialogue. And here's the stat. Leaders need to listen 70% of the time and talk 30% of the time. So even giving yourself a metric to go, am I doing this?

[00:08:19] Right.

[00:08:19] We'll illustrate what kind of listener you are.

[00:08:22] Oh, what a great, you know, voice in the back of your head thinking, hey, have I been speaking 75% of the time or have I been listening 75% of the time? Yeah.

[00:08:31] I know I find myself, you know, trying to give too much detail, trying to give a backstory, trying to give some context because I really want my employees or the people I'm working with to fully understand this whole story. But yeah, there's there, it is. Sometimes you get caught up in the moment and get up in the excitement, excitement and you're, you're not doing the listening.

[00:08:49] You don't hear the details. So that stat I just told you was 70%.

[00:08:54] It was 70%.

[00:08:55] I was rounding up. I was rounding up.

[00:08:57] No, come on. For the, for the podcast, it meant such a great opportunity and you didn't want to be wrong.

[00:09:05] I know. I'm sorry. What were you talking about? Anyhow?

[00:09:11] The wound licking portion of the podcast will be after the roll credits in which James will be covered or curled up under his desk, apologizing profusely.

[00:09:21] Yes. And, and to your point too, you also said this, I just don't want to take away from this is active listening means you're actually listening to what they're saying. And I know that sounds really like so simple, but when you listen and you're kind of curious about it, that's interesting. Why did they say that? Then you allow yourself instead of assuming in your head that will slow you down too.

[00:09:45] Yeah. And I think it, but it is hard to both listen. You know, we all know people who are absolutely not listening and they are crafting their next response.

[00:09:54] Yes.

[00:09:54] But long before you've even taken the second breath and as leaders, sometimes it is, you know, it is important for you to get a topic or a concept out, but yeah, you've got to, you know, listening is a critical muscle that, that I think all, all executives need to continue to.

[00:10:10] Yeah.

[00:10:11] You know, exercise.

[00:10:12] And people know if you're a good listener or not.

[00:10:15] Yeah. Yeah. That's very true. 70% of listeners know that. No, I'm just kidding.

[00:10:20] That's right.

[00:10:20] The third one that I think actually helps you when you're listening, Mike, in the communication is having a cadence and a regular framework for those things to happen.

[00:10:28] I think I've been to many events with leaders that I'm working with where they will do a town hall and they'll say, all right, we're going to pass the mic around for the last 20 minutes and, you know, get questions and nothing happens.

[00:10:41] And there, you know, you can see the uncomfortableness both on the, on the stage perhaps and in the audience.

[00:10:47] And then you ask them, how often do you do this? And they're like, well, once a year.

[00:10:51] Well, of course, nobody's going to do this or they're not going to have an opportunity.

[00:10:54] They're not going to feel comfortable doing that.

[00:10:56] And so if you don't have a cadence or a ceremony in which that feedback, both directions is happening, then it won't, you just really won't work.

[00:11:06] And, you know, I think there's so many really good systems out there.

[00:11:10] You know, the agile framework for software development has a ton of ceremonies in it.

[00:11:14] And the EOS, the entrepreneurial operating system, which is very popular now, has a ton of those for business.

[00:11:20] You just have to define the moments in which you want that to happen and make sure they happen a lot.

[00:11:25] Because it gives you just the, your employees and your team, the time to which they can, they can speak.

[00:11:31] Yeah. And I think sometimes showing people how to ask the questions and even say, you know, I, at the beginning of whatever you're talking about, I'm going to give you an opportunity to ask any question that comes to mind.

[00:11:45] And in fact, I've asked James, Susie, and Jim to have questions top of mind just to get us started.

[00:11:55] Oh, that's always so helpful.

[00:11:56] And then, and then that way you're not seeding something that you're not telling them.

[00:12:00] I'm going to really challenge or say to them, I'm going to challenge them to ask the first questions because sometimes it's like just getting that, getting it going, getting that momentum going can be such an opener and allow people to have the confidence to ask that question or getting them ready to.

[00:12:17] Yeah. It's so interesting. I wish I understood the psychology of that, where it's not so much, you know what you want to say, you know, somebody breaks the ice.

[00:12:24] But there's clearly no physical ice and there's nothing, no barrier there.

[00:12:28] But it is, it's a real, real thing where, you know, until somebody asks a first question, people won't ask additional questions.

[00:12:36] And I, I, I love the way you described that up front, preset the icebreaker.

[00:12:41] What a really cool idea that definitely would change the way I think people look at the end of the meeting.

[00:12:45] I remember early in my career, even when they'd go around and do introductions in the boardroom and I'd be like, I just remember not listening to anybody else.

[00:12:53] Cause I'm like, what am I going to say about myself? What's important.

[00:12:56] And it was so funny to think about even over time, you learn kind of the things and don't forget that there's a little bit of, it's not just the question to ask.

[00:13:06] How am I going to frame it? What are they going to think of me? If I ask, there's a lot to it.

[00:13:11] So anything that you can do to help people get there sooner and challenge them in a way that's going to make them grow from that experience.

[00:13:18] And it sounds like a little thing, but it's an important thing that people need to start building that muscle around.

[00:13:24] I read a book, an interesting article that talked about essentially suggesting that you write down the question that you want to ask.

[00:13:32] I think they were calling it silent brainstorming. So you could then, and not like a huge paragraph or anything, but if you simply wrote down the question in a sentence, you would be much more likely to ask that question in a coherent way.

[00:13:47] And I so often watch people kind of flounder around in the question or fail to get the response they want from the speaker and ask the question six times and never let the speaker answer because they're like trying to get the words out.

[00:14:02] I found that for me, if I force it to be a sentence, I'm much more clear in the question I'm asking.

[00:14:09] I love that idea in any forum to do that at the beginning and challenge them to do that.

[00:14:15] And then that way you can say who wants to read their question.

[00:14:18] Oh, I like that. That's a really cool idea. Right now, everybody's got a piece of paper before we even maybe before the session starts or before you start the Q&A, we're going to take one second.

[00:14:27] I'm going to get a drink of water and then everybody write down their question.

[00:14:31] Yeah.

[00:14:31] And then you can just read it. Yeah, that's really good. That's really good.

[00:14:35] Or put your question in the chat.

[00:14:36] That's always good, too, because I do think, you know, people are a little more likely to use punctuation and reasonable grammar if they're putting it in the chat versus what they'll just blurb out under pressure.

[00:14:50] I love that idea of writing it down to get it coherent because I think you're exactly right.

[00:14:54] So many people, that's where it comes into.

[00:14:56] All right. So what are the three?

[00:14:57] So the three, I think, you know, as a company, you want to have a story bank or a means, a good coherent story that allows you to not only engage your employees with the situation, but also be consistent in your messaging.

[00:15:12] So whether your company helps you put together the narrative or you and your leadership team find ways to both convey the information, but also engage the listener.

[00:15:22] You know, having that story mindset, I think it goes a long way.

[00:15:25] Second, make sure if you're going to craft those stories are based on what's really happening in the field.

[00:15:31] Have those deep learning sessions, listening sessions.

[00:15:34] Ensure that you are communicating to your people from where they are.

[00:15:38] Nothing more painful than a tone deaf leadership meeting in which your storytelling is completely orthogonal to what's actually going on with your people.

[00:15:47] And then third, really have a framework by which you can communicate so your people feel comfortable doing it.

[00:15:54] Use tools like having them write down their questions.

[00:15:57] That's that silent brainstorming.

[00:15:59] Create a way in which that communication is more constant, more fluid and just generally more valuable.

[00:16:06] Wow. Gold. Gold.

[00:16:09] It's good. That was a good one.

[00:16:10] Boy, there's a lot of good stuff in there.

[00:16:11] I know. We should say so ourselves.

[00:16:13] Thanks, James.

[00:16:16] Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take, where we talk about the questions that are on the minds of executives everywhere.

[00:16:23] Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

[00:16:25] You can find us on LinkedIn, YouTube, or whatever nerdy place on the internet you find your podcasts.

[00:16:30] All the links you really need are in the show notes.

[00:16:33] Thank you.