Transformative Leadership with Dev Ashish

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Quick Take podcast, the show where you

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get targeted advice and coaching for executives by

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executives.

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I'm Suzy Tominchuk.

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Speaker 2: And I'm James Capps.

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Give us 15 minutes and we'll give you three secrets to

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address the complex topic of issues that are challenging

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executives like you today.

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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Quick Take.

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I'm your host, Suzy Tominchuk, along with James Capps.

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How are you, James?

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Speaker 2: I am fantastic.

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How are you today, Suzy?

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Speaker 1: We're not just better today together, but we have a

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special guest.

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So tell us about our guest.

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Speaker 2: That's right.

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Oh, I'm so excited, dear friend of mine, david Shish.

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He is the CTO with Clear Choice Dental Implant Centers.

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Dave and I have been friends for a while and been spending a

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lot of time talking about some really cool topics around

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leadership and how we look at leading people, and so I'm so

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excited to have you here today, dave.

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And why don't you just tell us a little bit about yourself and

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kind of how you got to be the great guy you are today?

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Speaker 3: No pressure and on a high note.

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Speaker 2: There it's got to be, you know, with a big win.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, james.

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That's very kind of you, very kind of you.

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I've been in the world of technology, healthcare,

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healthcare technology, healthcare operations now for

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about 22 years give or take, and I've been very lucky, I've been

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blessed.

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Actually, all four of my career stops have been in very high

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growth companies I sometimes joke my first company that I

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joined them.

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They were around 650 people when I joined in Wisconsin and

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over my 10 years there, in spite of me, they grew to 10

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people.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: So I really got the opportunity to learn about

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building teams and being more process-oriented and leadership,

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because they really were hiring fresh graduates out of schools

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and all of that right.

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So I really had the opportunity to learn there and have since

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had beautiful opportunities to hone my skills in three other

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organizations and now, as you mentioned, I am the technology

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leader here at Clear Choice.

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You know we've got 100 centers spread across the country doing

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some pretty cool things in transforming patient lives and

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giving them hope, as they may have fallen outside the world of

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dentistry and all of those things.

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But thanks again for having me here.

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Speaker 1: Susie and James, it's such an honor to be talking

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shop with you folks.

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To hear that it's an honor.

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Speaker 2: I love that I know I slipped them five bucks behind

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the screen here, but you know, one of the things that we

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thought we'd talk about today was a little bit about your

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perspective on leadership, and not necessarily the challenges

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at your individual location, but how you think about leadership,

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and I think you said it so well as we were getting ready for

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this.

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But you know what are the things you would tell your kids,

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how would you help them see what it takes to be a leader?

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And you know we have the patented three bonus system here

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where we're going to provide three actionable nuggets for our

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listeners, for our quicksters, and I'd just love to hear what

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you'd like to offer in that space.

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Speaker 3: Sure, yeah, leadership is such a big one,

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right, we can read all sorts of books, we can have all sorts of

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idols and all of those things.

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Right For me when I think about the three things, and it's hard

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to distill it down to three, but let's take a shot at it at

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least, right, I think the first one I'd say james is really

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being intellectually curious, right?

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I, I think, uh, intellectually curious, having the growth

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mindset, right?

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Uh, satya, satya nadella of microsoft, right, I think he's

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the first one who really came out and said hey, I don't want

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to be a know-it-all I, I want to be a learn-it-all.

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Right, and that, to me, is so key, right is, uh, how do we

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think about having the curiosity to understand business, not

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just technology, not just one thing, but really understanding

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how things are fitting in?

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Because one thing for me as a technology leader is, uh, it

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really is the business outcomes that fascinate me that I want to

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go chase, not just technology for technology's sake, right?

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So that's what I think in terms of intellectual curiosity and

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what I'd say again.

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There is, you know, in some ways I think corporate America has

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created this problem where a lot of our people think that, hey,

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I've been in this role for three years, four years Now I got to

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take that next step up, and now I've been in this role for

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another three years.

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Four years Now I got to take that next step up, and now I've

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been in this role for another three years, I got to take that

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next step up, and I don't agree with that concept of only

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vertical growth.

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I think growth can come in many different shapes and forms.

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I think horizontal growth, learning different areas Okay,

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now, I know this piece of my business or whatever.

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How can I I as a technology leader now go learn more about

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operations?

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How can I go learn more about the sales engine or something

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else?

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Right, so, even for leaders, even in the c-suite, I make the

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case that we should be thinking horizontal and learning more,

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because then actually that also makes us better leaders for our

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own function too, right.

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So I really think about growth and intellectual curiosity in

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that capacity right.

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So that to me is very important .

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I mean a different framework.

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I'd take even is the advent of AI now right?

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Like, hey, do I now create a different function?

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Somebody head?

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Speaker 2: of AI.

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Speaker 3: I don't necessarily think so.

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I'd rather have the existing folks that are there and have

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learning about that Exactly Learning, experimenting.

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I think that's key.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't help but think about my career and my

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.

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You know I was definitely jumping from industry to

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industry.

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You know I went from aerospace to cable to financial services

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and yeah, there was that curiosity about how technology

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could be applied in different ecosystems.

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And, yeah, I think that that's such good advice for leaders,

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for your children, for students, just for humans.

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I think that when you stop learning as a person, when you

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start wondering why things aren't exactly like you think

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they are, you know you are going to, you're going to struggle

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and I think whether it's learning how to do something new

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in Java, whether it's learning about AI, I think having a team

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who is ready to respond and grow and think about things in

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different ways is it's just a really great piece of advice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not.

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You also said too, it's not going up, it's not a ladder,

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it's a jungle gym.

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I don't know if you know that people even know what that is

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anymore, but that that we as leaders think there's a book to

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read or something.

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But it really is getting curious, and being courageous

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enough to be curious is what I love about that.

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Speaker 2: Well, so often I give people advice.

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In fact I was coaching someone this morning.

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I'm saying, look, you have to realize there's, as a leader,

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your boss has a lot of things that need to get done, and if

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you can just curious, use curiosity and interest to fill

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the void, just I'll go do this.

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I don't, is it my job?

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I don't know who's doing it, I don't know.

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You know, let me explore that type of of a wide eyed

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enthusiasm.

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Yeah, it's how you grow in your career and I think that that's

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just a great way for people to stay motivated and to really

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solve the problems that companies have today.

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All right, dave, that's a great first one.

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What's our second one?

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Speaker 3: The second one is a little bit of a personal story.

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This happened to me.

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I was in a board meeting and a question got asked of me like,

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hey, can we do this, do this?

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And I, uh, stupid, old me, right.

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So no, because this, this, this , this, right.

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And the board member kind of, uh, right there in the meeting

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cell, dave, I think I'm hearing you say, yes, if we can solve

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for this, this and this.

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Yes, she is, uh, she's spot on, uh, you know, uh, the board

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member was spot on.

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And I came back and I literally wrote it on my whiteboard yes,

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if.

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And then I crossed out no because right.

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And I think that lesson is whether it's leadership I think

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you talked about even tackling new things with wide-eyed

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enthusiasm right, I think it applies in all settings.

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It's not just about leadership.

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It really is about taking on new things sometimes, and or

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when an organization has a new project or there's a new

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priority, and all of those things that really being able to

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say, yes, we can go build this.

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Yes, we can go do this if we can reprioritize, or if we can

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remove this barrier, or if, if I had additional staffing, or if

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I had an extra million dollars, whatever, right, I don't know

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the answer, but I think sometimes we fall into the trap

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of, hey, we can't do this and we have litany of reasons, and

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they're good reasons.

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I'm not saying they're not good reasons, right, but I think

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it's the mindset shift sometimes that I love for, and sometimes

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I'm also I'm still guilty of it, right, like, look, I have it

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written on my whiteboard, but I'm still guilty of it.

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Being able to see the forest from the tree sometimes, right,

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but that's one lesson that has stuck with me is trying to

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differentiate between the yes versus the no, yeah, I love that

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so much.

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Speaker 2: It's really the offensive response versus the.

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Well, let me say that differently not an offensive

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response, but you're responding with a on offense versus defense

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, right, and you're saying, hey, I want to solve this versus hey

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, we can solve that.

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And I think just that language shift, and if you can infect

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your people with that language shift, really changes the way

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people react to problems, the way people work together, and it

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creates a group that is interested in your first one,

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which is being curious.

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You know, yes, if we can solve these things, that I don't know

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anything about, and so they go really well together.

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But I do love that idea of just looking for ways to solve it

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versus ways that stop us from solving it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like making the default yes, so that

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you do have sometimes we don't know and sometimes we don't want

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to go into solutioning necessarily right away but make

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that default yes, let's move forward.

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And that provides like a perception of you that you are

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somebody that is solution oriented, because you also don't

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want to get a reputation that you are the one that always

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brings up the barriers.

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People don't like to work with leaders like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and when you're in a conversation, I can assume

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that the now that board member that you interacted with very

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maturely and very had a great perspective of hearing what you

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were saying and then also helping you say it in a way that

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was more appropriate.

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But many people would take that no, in a way that would just

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end the conversation, which would reflect back on you very

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negatively and immediately be.

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You know that die is cast and I think that you know I coach a

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lot of people on that very thing .

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You know, my boss came to me with a thing.

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I don't know if I can do it.

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I don't care.

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The answer is yes.

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Speaker 1: The answer is always yes, you know, I know somebody

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you brought.

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Speaker 2: I was coaching somebody that you brought to me

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recently, susie, about a challenge that they were having

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at their place, and my answer was like no, you've got, it's

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always yes their place.

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And and my answer was like no, you've got, it's always yes.

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You can bring back the reasons why it's hard later, but if but

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if you say no, I'm not really sure, let me get back to you in

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two weeks.

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They're going to find somebody else, so you've got to have that

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mindset.

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Speaker 3: And then the opportunities pass you by.

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I think you said it very well to Susie right, the reputation,

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right.

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You don't want as a leader in any organization.

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You don't want to have a reputation that, if I take this

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to John, john's just going to give me the reasons why it can't

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be done.

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Right, like you want to have the reputation that John's going

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to help me figure it out.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, right, totally.

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All right, Dave, give me your third nugget.

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These are two good ones already .

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I feel like we could wrap right now, but let's get that third

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one.

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Speaker 3: I've already earned the $5 that you slipped behind

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the screen.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right, you've earned it, excellent.

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Speaker 3: Well, the third one I'd say, james, for me is really

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around the people.

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Right, look, as a leader, our success is so much dependent on

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our own teams.

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Right, we have to figure out a way how to connect with our

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people, how to connect our people with the mission of the

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organization, with the mission of, or the why of, the project.

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Right, I think both of them like to me working.

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I'm lucky enough to be working in a mission oriented

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organization and it's very easy for me when I'm, even when I'm

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feeling down, to see like, okay, why does the mission matter and

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how does this project, how does this help with the overall

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mission?

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How does this help me affect change in more, in more

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patients' lives and all of those things?

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Right, so, being mission oriented and being able to tie

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any incoming body of work to that mission, but, even more so,

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being able to understand my people ideally and being able to

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say how, how does this tie in with their own value system?

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Right, like my, my personal values, if you'll let me talk

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about that.

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Right, like I'm big on accountability and collaboration

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.

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Right, accountability to me is get shit done and collaboration

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is hey, if you want to walk fast , you walk alone.

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If you want to walk far, you walk together.

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Right and in large organizations often it does come

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about.

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You want to walk far while not necessarily sacrificing speed

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there is that fine-tuning balance of all of those?

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things right.

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But really, taking, some of my team members may have the core

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values of creativity and resourcefulness.

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Okay, how can I take this project that's coming in and how

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can I tie it into John's value system of creativity and

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resourcefulness and then get him motivated to go chase it right?

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You know the word motivation is also a funny one.

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I was taught a long time ago.

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Somebody said to me hey, how do I motivate my people?

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So motivation is internal, motivation is intrinsic.

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Right, like sure you can have external rewards and all of

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those things, but it really is an intrinsic.

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Only I can motivate myself and that, to me, does boil down to

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the values being able to tie into the why of things, of the

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company, of the project, and then helping people see why they

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want to do this.

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So really connecting with the people and connecting them

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overall to the mission is what I'd say is going to determine

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any leader's success.

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Speaker 2: You know, I had the good fortune of meeting with you

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at your facility a while back and met a bunch of your staff.

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Met a bunch of your staff and had and met folks of varying

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functions whether it was some of the medical professionals, one

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of the administrative professionals and the

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consistency of the passion of the mission was ubiquitous.

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And it was very much like that classic line where Kennedy

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talked to somebody when they were launching the Apollo

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mission and he went to the janitor and said what are you

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doing here?

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And he goes well, I'm putting a man on the moon and and I felt

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like that's what I was experiencing at your place,

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where every person was I'm changing people's lives by

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scheduling appointments.

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I am changing people's lives by scanning their teeth.

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I'm changing people's lives by fitting them with new implants

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that allow them to do X, y and Z , and so it was always that real

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mission.

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And I think it's great when a leadership team and your

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leadership team can get everybody together, show them

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what they are doing and how that leads to the mission and that

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takes your organization to a completely different level.

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And I think you're certainly walking the walk over there at

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at Card Choice.

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So congrats for that.

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It's just really great to see.

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Speaker 1: And that can be so hard to do.

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So that's great that you saw it , James.

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That says a lot it was almost it was.

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Speaker 2: At first I thought it was, maybe there were chips

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implanted or some sort of cult was going on.

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And At first I thought it was, maybe there were chips implanted

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or some sort of cult was going on, and you know.

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But after a while it was.

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These were normal people, they weren't step for wives or

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anything.

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But it's just and it is.

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It's infectious too.

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I mean, it's such a, it is a, it's a life changing medical

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treatment and I think that that's that's just really great.

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And I think you know, when you are able to sit down with your

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folks, your employees, and have them appreciate that mission and

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message it does, it makes everything else you know that

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much more connected to what they do every day.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely.

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Speaker 1: So good, all right, james.

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Now the question is can you give us the three in your own

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words?

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Speaker 2: Yes, in my own words.

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So these are just so good though I mean they're just,

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they're things that I'm I'm taking notes here just so I can

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remember them.

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But you know, obviously the first one, you know let's, you

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know, remain intellectually curious, always find the

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adventure in what you're doing and trying to uh, uh, learn, uh,

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whether it's vertically or horizontally, maintain that

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curiosity.

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Secondarily, it's the yes if.

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Always lead with the positivity of that.

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It can be done.

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Of course, there are challenges , but when you start with the

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yes if instead of the no but or the no, because you're going to

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get people's more buy-in, you're going to have a better

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reputation and it's going to change the way you and others

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think.

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Then, finally, connect with people where they are, help them

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understand the message, help them understand the mission, and

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when you, as a leader, can connect with folks, you're going

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to find that they're going to follow you and you can follow

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them and everybody is going to be moving in the same direction

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and I think that's just a great one.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: It's gold.

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Speaker 3: I think James did a better job of encapsulating all

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three of them than I did, so thank you, james.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no.

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Those were, I think, just your application of that and the way

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that you describe it is just.

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It's really great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely quotable.

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Thank you for your wisdom.

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It's great to meet you, Dave.

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Speaker 2: Likewise Susie likewise yeah.

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All right, well, thanks so much , Dave.

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It was really fun to have you here today.

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I appreciate your insights.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

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Thank you for having me today, and again I appreciate the honor

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and looking forward to continuing our conversations on

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related topics, James.

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Speaker 2: Fantastic on related topics.

00:18:55
James Fantastic, You're trapped on a desert island.

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You have plenty of food and water and me and we have to do a

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podcast to survive.

00:19:06
What is our topic?

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Speaker 3: One every day.

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Oh, what do we talk?

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Speaker 2: about.

00:19:25
Speaker 1: That's so great, so the theme for the podcast on the

00:19:26
desert island.

00:19:26
Speaker 2: Yes, would be that is so good.

00:19:29
That was not ai generated, by the way.

00:19:31
Speaker 1: That was really good.

00:19:32
Oh, I have to ask a question.

00:19:36
Can I call a friend?

00:19:37
I'm calling you.

00:19:37
What was the volleyball's name on the TED?

00:19:44
Wilson Wilson?

00:19:45
What would Wilson do?

00:19:48
Speaker 2: That's what it would all be about that's our podcast

00:19:54
W-W-W-D.

00:19:54
What would Wilson do?

00:19:55
I?

00:19:56
Speaker 1: thought that was good If only I could have thought of

00:19:58
the name wilson.

00:20:00
Speaker 2: Only I could have thought about it that's good, we

00:20:02
would be could you imagine how much we'd laugh?

00:20:04
We would laugh because we would be so hysterical you know, out

00:20:08
of our minds.

00:20:09
Oh my god, it would be great.

00:20:10
Hopefully there'd be liquor on that island.

00:20:13
Hopefully I agree with you.

00:20:19
That would be the first two episodes.

00:20:21
Speaker 1: That one will make liquor.

00:20:23
Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Quick Take,

00:20:30
where we talk about the questions that are on the mind

00:20:31
of executives everywhere.

00:20:32
Connect with us and share what's on your mind.

00:20:35
Speaker 2: You can find us on LinkedIn, youtube or whatever

00:20:38
nerdy place on the internet.

00:20:39
You find your podcasts.

00:20:40
Our links to the show are in the show notes.

00:20:43
We appreciate you.